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Thread: The never ending Vic argument thread

  1. #1

    Default The never ending Vic argument thread

    The Pundamilia nyererei males usually only get maybe 4 inch to 4 1/2" long even in the aquarium. A "near 7 inch" nyererei is unheard of.

    Kevin
    I have seen very old Ruti Island Nyererei that were over 5 yrs old push easy 5 - 6 inch size. filled my hand when in it. I believe 7 inch is possible if grown in large tank. Most people do not see them over 4" as it takes many years to grow 5 - 6" i seen them this large in long time master breeder fish room. general hobbiest do not see fish like this. If you ask the person who imported them into the country originally he can tell you his are very large now and he has had them so long they no longer breed. tank raised generally do grow larger then wild specimens. there has only been 1 shipment in 2007 from USA commercial wholesale importer.
    I have heard rumor that some hobbiest may know a guy or some research team who managed to bring some back but no proof of any fish or fry only story. Still no fry hitting internet market from this rumor. He is only other person I know of who had proof of paperwork showing he had part of the same wild shipment that I did.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    All older Nyererei I have seen that are great colored when young end up look like this many years later. This is a wild male, I have seen this color pattern in older tank raised nyererei but when young they show yellow and green in body. this was the oldest looking wild specimen that I recieved.

  2. #2

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    I've had nyererei sold to me as Ruti's although I question their authenticity. They lived to almost 6 years in my care but only reached maybe 4.5". I've heard that Makobe's grow a bit larger. I've had nyererei Makobe Island live slightly more than 6 years in my care but even they only reached 5.5". All I know is my own experience and 7" still sounds quite large to me.

    Yea, I know the Vic's often get quite funky looking when they get old.

    Kevin

  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by StructureGuy View Post
    I've had nyererei sold to me as Ruti's although I question their authenticity. They lived to almost 6 years in my care but only reached maybe 4.5". I've heard that Makobe's grow a bit larger. I've had nyererei Makobe Island live slightly more than 6 years in my care but even they only reached 5.5". All I know is my own experience and 7" still sounds quite large to me.

    Yea, I know the Vic's often get quite funky looking when they get old.

    Kevin
    In the wild this fish can not grow large as it out grows its small hiding spots where it has adapted and becomes victim to predators like nile perch, not to mention food availability and water conditions.
    in the general aquarium this fish can not grow large as you are stunting there growth by having them in small crowded aquariums.

    growing these fish in ponds like commercial wholesale does or in 240 gal to 300 gal like I do. these fish are now the dominant specie and have no preditor, are on a premium diet in optimum conditions and extra ordinary growth can be experienced not only in Nyererei but also another good example is Aulonocara. I have seen Aulonocara so large i couldnt believe it when I seen it, this is why i do believe the poster seen what he claims. sure 7 inch maybe a bit of exageration but 5 - 6 inch is surely possible and as you mention yours have reached 5.5" and I have seen 5"+ as I mentioned. i have been breeding Nyererei for 12 yrs now. I have over 1,000 gallons dedicated to this one specie. All fry are grown out in 300 gallon vats as soon as they are 1/4 - 1/2" in size insuring customer does not get stunted fish.
    currently 3 vats filled with these little fry
    size of your grow out tanks likely explains why you do not see over 4" - 4.5" My F1 male is already about 4" and he is still fairly young living in a 240 gal.
    1 person claiming to see a 6" - 7" fish is not out of the question and can very well happen in the right conditions. you do not have to disgree with everyone Kevin.

  4. #4

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    [QUOTE=deltoid1024;331173]All,

    As you can see, my Rutis don't really look like the male posted above.....although they are showing a little color, I can't tell if they are male or not, as all 4 look about the same....here are random shots of them...any comments/help/concerns are welcome (trying to sex these guys/girls)...



    i can see a male in your pics. the ones with bold yellow egg spot, blue in the body near anal fin will be a male, females will be the ones with rounded anal fins with yellow in color in the anal fin. females can have a yellow egg spot but generally they are faint and not as bold as a male. You can tell genetics are week or resessive as the dorsals are all blue, Nyereri dominance dorsal is red, I have selectively picked my females for breeding when they show red dorsals, yes thats right females with red in the dorsals are far and few in spawns but if carefully bred you can achieve and this is a breeder tecnique i have used to produce the redest Nyererei available. the blue dorsals is common in Nyererei as the strain is bred over and over. years ago i selected for blue and produce a nyererei with little red and lots of blue photos are in my albulms cant post any links here as kevin will delete them.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Jacksonville Florida
    Posts
    2,091

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    only if you are trying to sell something, Kevin's right there.

    But if you want to share your photo's just simply post them here.

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by Parrothead View Post
    only if you are trying to sell something, Kevin's right there.

    But if you want to share your photo's just simply post them here.
    Dont need or have used this site for selling fish, only posted to clear up some confusion adn bad rumors kevin may or may not be partially responcible for.
    I posted up my photos and he removed them as I included link to my Victorian Photo gallery. I have been breeding Victorian species since 1995 and Chuck Rambo has used my photos for his slide show lectures for several fish clubs in our state and possibly other states as well. for those that do not know chuck he has traveled to the lakes and has done some diligent research and as far as I know the only one who has taken the time to do so and then travel with this info and sharing with others via lecture and slide show presentation. I wrote a full page included photos but because it included a link he removed the whole thing. Kevin has been known to share his difference in opinion with me in the past adn no surprise he will find any reason he can to remove my posts.

    if you like to see my photo gallery you can google my forum user name it will come up. here is an example of few of my favorites. hopefully my time is not wasted again and you will get to see them.
    Click image for larger version. 

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Name:	Pundamilia Nyererei Red Mwanza F0 16.JPG 
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    As you can all see F1 generation is just as spectacular as the F0 generation. Nice photos of both wild males and females as well as F1 male and female
    hope this squashes the rumor that no wild females were used for breeding.

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by CaliforniaCichlids View Post
    Dont need or have used this site for selling fish, only posted to clear up some confusion adn bad rumors kevin may or may not be partially responcible for.
    I posted up my photos and he removed them as I included link to my Victorian Photo gallery. I have been breeding Victorian species since 1995 and Chuck Rambo has used my photos for his slide show lectures for several fish clubs in our state and possibly other states as well. for those that do not know chuck he has traveled to the lakes and has done some diligent research and as far as I know the only one who has taken the time to do so and then travel with this info and sharing with others via lecture and slide show presentation. I wrote a full page included photos but because it included a link he removed the whole thing. Kevin has been known to share his difference in opinion with me in the past adn no surprise he will find any reason he can to remove my posts.

    if you like to see my photo gallery you can google my forum user name it will come up. here is an example of few of my favorites. hopefully my time is not wasted again and you will get to see them. Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Pundamilia Nyererei Red Mwanza F0 i.JPG 
Views:	48 
Size:	73.8 KB 
ID:	20466Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Pundamilia Nyererei Red Mwanza F0 16.JPG 
Views:	39 
Size:	166.4 KB 
ID:	20467Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Pundamilia Nyererei Red Mwanza F1.JPG 
Views:	42 
Size:	195.4 KB 
ID:	20468

    As you can all see F1 generation is just as spectacular as the F0 generation. Nice photos of both wild males and females as well as F1 male and female
    hope this squashes the rumor that no wild females were used for breeding.

    He removed it because you were trying to sell fish. They have a for sale section here on this forum.

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by CaliforniaCichlids View Post
    Dont need or have used this site for selling fish...(snip)
    I posted up my photos and he removed them as I included link to my Victorian Photo gallery. (Snip)...Chuck Rambo has used my photos for his slide show lectures for several fish clubs in our state and possibly other states as well. I wrote a full page included photos but because it included a link he removed the whole thing. Kevin has been known to share his difference in opinion with me in the past adn no surprise he will find any reason he can to remove my posts.
    I have no quarrel with you at all, Joe. I simply have a different opinion than you at times and that is what forums are all about ..... sharing personal experiences. You posted 4 or 5 responses in one sitting and almost every one included a link to your web site to encourage sales, not just photos. When the post had information, I edited out the blatent advertisement and left the rest of the post intact. I didn't do it behind your back, I told you what I did and why I did it.

    I think Glaive allows commercial sales adds in the trading Post section (I'm not sure.) Just post in the appropriate section and all is good as far as I'm concerned. Or you could put your stocklist in your signature as I did.

    I did see that Chuck Rambo used a ton of my pictures in his presentation at the ACA Convention in Cincinnati a couple years ago. It kinda caught me by surprise seeing my name on the screen when I had no idea he had taken a bunch of my pics from the profile section at Cichild-Forum.com. But that's fine, I don't mind. Using my pics doesn't validate anything in my mind.

    You are welcome to post here anytime, Joe. More vic discussion is a good thing. If I disagree with you it is based upon what I've observed it's not really a "bad rumour" just a different experience.

    Kevin

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by StructureGuy View Post
    I did see that Chuck Rambo used a ton of my pictures in his presentation at the ACA Convention in Cincinnati a couple years ago. It kinda caught me by surprise seeing my name on the screen when I had no idea he had taken a bunch of my pics from the profile section at Cichild-Forum.com. But that's fine, I don't mind. Using my pics doesn't validate anything in my mind.

    Kevin
    Actually photos speak a 1,000 words in many peoples eyes, and my photos VALIDATE the years of hard work I put into these fish and it was a privlage to have my photos used when Chuck called and asked my permission and then sent me a copy of the lecture on CD Rom.

    See what I mean your attitude toward my post. If you think photos dont validate anything then why use them at all.

    cichlid forums / cichlid forum/ californiacichlid / californiacichlids just as bad as a chinease knock off. I need remember stick with the originators and not the imatators.

    i did not post any link to a stock list. I posted links to photos but like you said they dont validate anything. I probrbably Need spend my time on larger more reputable forum.

    dont even bother with a reply

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Vermont
    Posts
    278

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    Anyone can post a photo and say it's their fish. So they really are a 100% certainty that you did or have anything. I'm not trying to get into this just trying to point out a pretty well known fact about any posting of pictures on the internet. Unless they're copyrighted and still you don't know unless you see whats in the photo with your own eyes.

  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by Escobert View Post
    Anyone can post a photo and say it's their fish. So they really are a 100% certainty that you did or have anything. I'm not trying to get into this just trying to point out a pretty well known fact about any posting of pictures on the internet. Unless they're copyrighted and still you don't know unless you see whats in the photo with your own eyes.
    So much for americas history books then. when we are all dead and are fish are gone all thats left is photos, videos, and articles to validate where things came from for future generations to learn from. with views like you guys its no wonder this economy sucks.

    this is why I did not put my pic in the posts as you type of people would steal them, this is why i used a link back to a copyright location that I own. this is why Kevin was never asked for permission for his pics. once he put them on a forum,
    any pic I put on a forum has my name and business on it.

    back to the real CICHLID-FORUM largest source on the net. for real info GOOGLE IT. Adding an S & removing a hyphen to the original founders name shows type of founder and mods here.
    nothing but wasted time here.

  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by CaliforniaCichlids View Post
    So much for americas history books then. when we are all dead and are fish are gone all thats left is photos, videos, and articles to validate where things came from for future generations to learn from. with views like you guys its no wonder this economy sucks.

    this is why I did not put my pic in the posts as you type of people would steal them, this is why i used a link back to a copyright location that I own. this is why Kevin was never asked for permission for his pics. once he put them on a forum,
    any pic I put on a forum has my name and business on it.

    back to the real CICHLID-FORUM largest source on the net. for real info GOOGLE IT. Adding an S & removing a hyphen to the original founders name shows type of founder and mods here.
    nothing but wasted time here.
    Go to the other forum samaki and StructureGuy are the mods over there. Joe you just keep putting your foot in your mouth here.

  13. #13

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    You guys really LOVE your vics!!!!

  14. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by ratherbfishnjp View Post
    You guys really LOVE your vics!!!!
    You got that right, I have spent more money and have had more water dedicated to Pundamilia Nyererei for the last 12 years then any other specie.
    when I see these mods like samaki post false info with no valid resource for refference to his false info. It was called for to post clear refference to resources of books with page numbers and photos clearly showing he was wrong on his posts regarding my fish in my photos gallery. All he could do was call me names and locked the thread for no more posting. what type of MOD is that
    I asked him for photos and published refference to back up his info and he provided NONE.

    I highly recomend members make this mods, post links and books page numbers for easy refference to validate what they are posting is true.
    if all members request this and insist on it... the bad info from these computer geeks AKA wanta be fish breeders will be weeded out.
    if these mods have time to be mods on all the sites as they claim ad hold day jobs as well as family, it is common sense they spend a lot less time actually working with fish hands on.

    I have been working on videos for all my fish and have been uploading on my web site, you tube, face book. videos on fish in spawning, how tospawn som species etc. articles with reference to resources used will also be written. you can fin my new videos through out the year by googleing my user name.

  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by CaliforniaCichlids View Post
    You got that right, I have spent more money and have had more water dedicated to Pundamilia Nyererei for the last 12 years then any other specie.
    when I see these mods like samaki post false info with no valid resource for refference to his false info. It was called for to post clear refference to resources of books with page numbers and photos clearly showing he was wrong on his posts regarding my fish in my photos gallery. All he could do was call me names and locked the thread for no more posting. what type of MOD is that
    I asked him for photos and published refference to back up his info and he provided NONE.

    I highly recomend members make this mods, post links and books page numbers for easy refference to validate what they are posting is true.
    if all members request this and insist on it... the bad info from these computer geeks AKA wanta be fish breeders will be weeded out.
    if these mods have time to be mods on all the sites as they claim ad hold day jobs as well as family, it is common sense they spend a lot less time actually working with fish hands on.

    I have been working on videos for all my fish and have been uploading on my web site, you tube, face book. videos on fish in spawning, how tospawn som species etc. articles with reference to resources used will also be written. you can fin my new videos through out the year by googleing my user name.

    Joe all you are doing is making a fool of yourself. Can you please QUIT insulting people here on the forum. You have started every problem here on the forum, just like now. Samaki has done more for the conservation effort of the Victorian cichlids than you can ever dream of. I have seen people have disagreement with Xris but they always keep it civil. You can't even start a discussion with out insulting people.

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