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Thread: Trivia Pursuit: Copyright I - Photos

  1. #1
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    Default Trivia Pursuit: Copyright I - Photos

    This post is an extension of one in the Lounge (about African v American cichlids or something). Rather than further hijack that thread, here's a brand new one.

    You know that quiz on law stuff that no one took? There's a copyright question in it. This is the longer version.

    Twenty people just went "Hey!"
    Don't flatter yourself: This post is aimed at no one in particular.


    From the site policy:

    You agree not to post any other person's copyrighted material.

    (We can discuss texts and other material some other time)

    In a nutshell, if you don't have the right to publish photos, don't.

    How do I get the right?

    If you're not the owner of the intellectual property, then you can get permission in writing from the owner. Most people will grant you such permission, and they do appreciate being asked. Wouldn't you?

    I don't have permission, but I am giving the owner credit for the photo.

    Credit, schmedit. You must get permission. Period.

    What about Fair Use? I read that the Fair Use doctrine allows me to post the photos of others as long as it's not for commercial use

    Let's take a look at the Fair Use provisions of the U.S. Copyright Act:

    107. Limitations on exclusive rights: Fair use

    Notwithstanding the provisions of sections 106 and 106A , the fair use of a copyrighted work, including such use by reproduction in copies or phonorecords or by any other means specified by that section, for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching (including multiple copies for classroom use), scholarship, or research, is not an infringement of copyright. In determining whether the use made of a work in any particular case is a fair use the factors to be considered shall include-

    (1) the purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of a commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes;

    (2) the nature of the copyrighted work;

    (3) the amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole; and

    (4) the effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work.

    The fact that a work is unpublished shall not itself bar a finding of fair use if such finding is made upon consideration of all the above factors.





    You can't isolate any factor; all are considered together.

    In other words, even if a photo is being used for nonprofit educational purposes (1), any claim to Fair Use may fall flat under (3) unless maybe you use the upper left corner of the pic or something.

    This pic doesn't have a copyright notice or even a name. I can use it, right?

    Nope. Since 1989, copyright notices haven't been necessary to protect a work.

    I didn't upload the photo. I'm just linking directly to it so that it shows up here.

    That's even worse. Not only are you stealing another's work, but you're also stealing his bandwidth. Sheesh! Hotlinking: It's a Bad Thing.

    But I see lots of sites with illegal pics on it all the time.

    So?

    I don't live in the United States. nyah nyah

    Is your country of residence a signatory to the Berne Convention?
    Nyah Nyah Nyah!

    Gimme a break. No one really gets in trouble for this stuff.

    You obviously haven't been caught...yet.

    Remember that a photograph is property. That means it usually belongs to someone. Treat is as you would any other property and common sense should dictate most of the rest.


    Copyright 2004 T. Fowler

    Use without permission and I'll sue your ass.

  2. #2
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    okay Tom, now you have me worried.should i delete all those attachments in my earlier posts i know this thread wasn't aimed at anyone in particular,i'm just asking if that would be the thing for me to do.

    nevermind,i took care of it.i'll be careful not to post other people's pics in the future.
    Last edited by cich1; 11-23-2004 at 09:01 AM.

  3. #3
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    Hey, cich1

    Just ask permission from the copyright holder. Email them and say that you'd like to use their photograph to illustrate a point (or whatever it is you want to do) on this site, that it will not be used for commercial gain whatsoever, that you'll be sure to credit the work in the manner they wish. Nine times out of ten, they say "No problem; thanks for asking!" If the copyright holder in question has a bunch of cool pics you think you might use in the future, ask them if that's ok under the same circumstances (not for commercial use, etc) If it's a commercial outfit (e.g., cichlid sales), they might actually welcome the exposure.

    But it's always best to ask first.

    My experience suggests that individuals don't get sued unless the copyright holder thinks he can get some serious money from them. I wouldn't push my luck, though--especially if your name is Donald Trump

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    Originally posted by cich1
    i know this thread wasn't aimed at anyone in particular
    Yeah, it's really not. In fact, any of the moderators will recall my saying a while ago that we'd further discuss this part of site policy.

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    Originally posted by tom
    I wouldn't push my luck, though--especially if your name is Donald Trump
    He's running out of luck lately. Trump's declaring bankruptcy on the casino.


    And yes, Tom did say awhile back that we'd have to make sure everybody understood the picture use stuff. I just nodded my head and acted like I understood what he was saying.
    Just being for awhile.

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    thanks Tom, will do buddy.


    jonah....

  7. #7

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    What are the rules with regards to written intellectual property? I would personally guess that giving credit in an mla style for something non profit would be enough? With refrence to that paper on chemistry I have started writing... Yes I know the works cited is not fully completed.... Just merely curios... if it is a potential problem I'll make sure to kill it.
    The photocontest, like everything else is behind schedule. You get some links back today.

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    Tom,

    Nicely put! I'm not a copyright lawyer, but I remember a little of it from school. I think I'll copy your post (with your permission, of course) and let my 14-year old daughter read it as part of her "I will not violate copyright law, even if all my friends do" assignment for the holidays. Through her, I see that lots of kids, (and some parents) sometimes have serious misunderstanding of what is and what is not a violation of copyright...such as thinking that as long as they buy a CD, they can make and hand out copies of it to all their friends, etc.

    Keep up the good work!

    David

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    Default Re: ...

    Originally posted by Glaive
    What are the rules with regards to written intellectual property? I would personally guess that giving credit in an mla style for something non profit would be enough?
    Maybe, maybe not, Alex. Donchya just love definitive answers?

    Fair Use is more complex with text than it is with photos (hence my parenthetical remark in the initial post).

    BTW: The MLA Style Manual is generally used as a reference for writers In the humanities (e.g., English Literature); the CBE Style is used for the biological sciences, I think.

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    Originally posted by fish speaker
    Tom,

    Nicely put! I'm not a copyright lawyer, but I remember a little of it from school. I think I'll copy your post (with your permission, of course) and let my 14-year old daughter read it as part of her "I will not violate copyright law, even if all my friends do" assignment for the holidays. Through her, I see that lots of kids, (and some parents) sometimes have serious misunderstanding of what is and what is not a violation of copyright...such as thinking that as long as they buy a CD, they can make and hand out copies of it to all their friends, etc.

    Keep up the good work!

    David
    David

    Sure: Whatever you want to use, please do. The line I include about my suing is intended as smarty pants joke, which I kinda figure you know. Besides, I'd hardly sue you: I wouldn't want to lose my (warning: bad pun ahead)...fee tail.

    Confession: I'm hardly an expert on intellectual property law, although I have paid some necessary attention to it over the past few years especially. My first moot court assignment involved copyright law; but that was some 20+ years ago, when we were allowed just seconds at a time on the Westlaw/Lexis terminals. We had to draft the appellate brief pretty much without the benefit of e.g. finding cases on point using anything even remotely resembling "technology." [Exit violins]

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    I guess I better clarify that this "assignment" for my daughter is one that I'M giving her to do, since I see such disregard for copyright among her and her friends. I've found that it works better if I give her something that someone else has said or written on the subject, since she thinks that anything I say (since I'm a parent) MUST be old and wrong.

    And yes, I loved the copyright notice!
    Last edited by fish speaker; 11-26-2004 at 08:42 AM.
    Luckiest guy on the planet.

  12. #12

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    Thanx for the ehads up on the mla vs cba there Tom, will take it into account by paper's completion, plus permission to use the info from the authors.
    The photocontest, like everything else is behind schedule. You get some links back today.

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    Alex

    I don't mean to give the impression that everything someone writes is protected by copyright and/or that you have to ask permission for every tidbit you use. If that were the case, we'd have a whole lot less literary criticism, for example, if at all. Lots of stuff isn't protected by copyright (e.g., facts), while fair use can be claimed for other stuff.

    All I mean is exactly what I said: That area of copyright law is not of special importance to the board right now.

    If you want me to look over the text and offer thoughts not to be confused with legal advice, I'll be glad to do it.

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    What are the rules with regards to written intellectual property? I would personally guess that giving credit in an mla style for something non profit would be enough? With refrence to that paper on chemistry I have started writing... Yes I know the works cited is not fully completed.... Just merely curios... if it is a potential problem I'll make sure to kill it.
    As for written copywrites, this is what I try to do to protect myself on my website:

    - paraphrase only, but still give credit
    - make sure quotes are short, not large sections of the article.

    Disclaimer: I'm no lawyer.
    Two mbuna tanks (a 180G and a 75G).

  15. #15

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    Thanks and Bravo!
    I get requests from around the world to post my pictures,,,and for those who think that the picture owner might put up a 'huff',,,well I don't,,,I haven't said no to a request yet.
    I only ask that credit be given,but I already have added the copyright symbol to the pic. so that's fine with me.
    Thinking no one will ever find out????
    I just google my name,website,picture and it gives me ALL the links to where the pics are posted.
    I periodically check out the site,,,mostly to see what's up and why they posted the pic.(being curious) Most of the time its just for forums,so it helps out others,and that's no problem.
    Why,I just did a quick check and this is what I came up with,mind you the pic is not posted but the link was easy for me to find thru 'Google'. http://www.cichlidforums.com/showthread.php?t=10821

    Recently I was told on another forum that "I was famous for posting this picture"(to which the thought had never occurred to me),,,I look back now and I think,,,Oh my,,,my pictures have gotten better since 2005!
    Then I went and 'Googled' it,sure enough there were about 6-10 links to this one.
    Back in 2005 Most People had never seen this fish.Now known as Cynotilapia sp."white top"
    (as per Malawi Export listing) or Cynotilapia sp. "white top gallireya reef" (or Hara Reef,per Konings 4th Edition)

    Taken at Hara Reef in October 2005


    Up here where I live this fish is still a 'big hit' and more fry are showing up in shops,,,,mostly from the imports that I have brought in.

    IMO,it is unknown what other picture authors might say/do, so as stated its always nice to ask.

    Just my thoughts...


    Cheers,Larry
    Last edited by Larryochromis; 11-01-2008 at 11:33 PM.

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