Jeff F: Good evening HOST!!

finz: Hi everyone.

finz: Glad to be here - -not sure where to start though.

DogWalker: Finz, no problem, we can just start peppering you with questions about your excellent photography and I'm sure it will take off from there :).

Jeff F.: Just for the transcript, I would like to say, it is an honor to have Finz contributions to this site and to our hobby as a whole. I can only look and hope to achieve the wonders he does with a camera. Thank you from an admirer and appreciative member of the "chat team".

finz: Awww Thanks.

finz: I have been at this photo thing for a while but didn't do much with fish photos until after digital was invented.

Jeff F.: Finz, your Beta pictures are MASTERPIECES!

finz: Thanks Jeff - I have really been having fun with the Bettas.

Jeff F.: I told you in the one thread Finz, certain shots looked like bronze sculptures....and I've actually been at live pores and seen sculptures come to life. You've captured that magic!

crazyfishlady: How bout a little info on how this chat should go?

crazyfishlady: Casual, or presentation style? Finz?

finz: Very casual.

finz: I don't have a presentation per se.

crazyfishlady: Do you want people to interject with a questions?

Jeff F.: Do we have to raise our hands?

DogWalker: Okay, do you prefer manual focus or auto focus (or does it depend on the situation)?

finz: I use manual focus most of the time for fish.

finz: I also tend to move my body to focus when in manual mode.

finz: You have to move anyway to follow the fish.

Jeff F.: Always black background tanks?

DogWalker: Pretty much rules out tripods I suppose.

finz: Tripods are difficult to use IMHO.

tchill93x: Is there a particular time of day you shoot...when the fish are less active?

tchill93x: Or for lighting?

finz: I have been known to sit backwards on a chair and rest my arms on it's back.

finz: I shoot mostly in the evening to remove reflections.

DogWalker: Lighting is a GREAT question - can you tell us what your preferred arrangements are for that?

finz: A room with no windows would work too.

finz: My lighting is almost always flash.

tchill93x: Explain a slave too.

finz: I use a flash controller to fire one or two flashes simultaneously.

finz: There are three types of slave.

finz: Optical uses another flash to set it off.

finz: Radio uses a radio signal.

finz: IR uses an infrared burst.

tchill93x: So is it what the flashes are connected to...or is it a flash unit itself?

finz: The most common is optical and is easy to find deals on.

finz: Some flashes have a slave built in, some need a slave unit attached that has the receiver in it.

DogWalker: I believe optical is also more versatile than infrared? How does radio rate in comparison?

finz: Radio is the best in a crowded situation - other peoples flash wont fire it.

tchill93x: but more expensive?

finz: The unit I use is IR - with it I can control 3 groups of multiple flashes including ratios from left to right.

finz: Radio and IR are both more expensive than optical.

DogWalker: Picked up an optical recently for $22.

tchill93x: That's why I was confused...prices ranged from $50 - over $400

finz: There is a wide range of prices involved.

finz: I have an old Albinar flash fitted with a "peanut" slave module that cost about $30 total

tchill93x: With all of the flashes in use...do you still use hood lights? If so, any special type so the picture is not affected?

finz: I use the hood lights to help me focus.

crazyfishlady: Do you use any tricks to get the fish into a good position for photos?

finz: The most common technique I use is to cover the tank with a piece of glass, set the flashes on it pointing up, set the hood light pointing forward, and cover the whole mess with a big piece of tin foil.

tchill93x: pointing away from the tank?

crazyfishlady: Anything to get the fish to interact with you?

DogWalker: never thought of that!

finz: Yep - the tin foil bounces the light back down.

tchill93x: Do you use food or does that mess up the picture?

DogWalker: Would white board work as well?

finz: Food catches the light and makes white spots everywhere.

Jeff F.: My question. It's obvious since we're among regulars that I love to show my fish. Is there an "introductory" level camera that stands above the rest for someone on a VERY limited budget?

finz: white board works, so does an old Styrofoam cooler.

finz: On a limited budget - think USED cams.

tchill93x: Do you use a macro lens only?

finz: Nice deals on http://www.keh.com/onlinestore/home.aspx.

finz: Dang - inadvertently exited and lost the questions.

Jeff F.: Forgot you didn't want to talk cams Jim. Will pm you.

finz: I use the macro lens a lot.

finz: I have also been known to kick back on a love seat a few feet away and shoot with a telephoto.

DogWalker: I haven't shelled out the big bucks for a good macro lens, but instead have been using a sharp primary lens (50mm) for fish shots - would I see a big difference with a macro lens?

finz: The only reason I use the macro so much is the close focusing distance.

tchill93x: Can you use a wide angle with close focusing?

finz: A sharp 50mm with an extension tube would work well too.

finz: Wide angle kind of defeats the purpose of getting close and will cause some distortion.

finz: It has a side effect of awesome depth of field though.

DogWalker: On another subject, what shutter speed do you try to achieve for best results (i.e. how fast is fast enough for awesome shots)?

tchill93x: So a zoom would work better (my 50mm primary broke) only have wide angle and zoom.

finz: I shoot pretty fast when using flash - never below 125th/sec.

finz: Theresa - I use a 70-200mm zoom once in a while.

tchill93x: Are there certain color fish you avoid or other challenges like decorations or backgrounds?

finz: Decorations and backgrounds can cause issues.

StructureGuy: Most of my tanks have light colored substrate with the back painted black. I have a lot of trouble getting good pictures of black fish. At the bottom the fish is just a black silhouette on a glaringly light background. Up higher the fish has a blue tint with the black background. Any hints?

DogWalker: LOL Theresa, was about to ask, "which species do you find the most difficult to shoot, and why? (conversely, the easiest and why as well)?"

Jeff F.: Alex did a very good presentation on how to deal with backgrounds.

tchill93x: http://www.cichlidforums.com/showthread.php?t=32126 – Alex’s presentation.

finz: If you want whole tank shots, the decoration don't matter much.

finz: I try to make the background subtle by deflecting the flash away from the back.

finz: Structure Guy - Black fish require directional lighting - one from above and behind the fish and one from the front and off to the side a bit.

StructureGuy: I only have the 430EX.

finz: The back flash keeps the edges of the fish lighter than the background.

finz: Tin foil can be your friend - try setting the flash to the back of the tank and cover the tank. and the top three inches of the front with foil.

finz: If you can reflect light from the front as well as illuminate the edges of the fish – you will have it.

StructureGuy: Does this work with a 24" deep tank?

tchill93x: So with black fish you use 4 flashes? But with tin foil you can use 1 flash?

finz: 4? No I use two but when you only have one flash you have to use reflectors.

finz: The larger tanks will require more powerful flashes but it will work -the problem is shooting a sharp photo through the thicker glass.

DogWalker: Never thought of that as a big issue... more distortion?

finz: Yes, aquarium glass isn't optically clear.

finz: I really notice it with my macro lens in the tiny fish.

DogWalker: Ah, okay.

DogWalker: Just getting back to an earlier Q, which species do you find the most difficult to shoot, and why? (Conversely, the easiest and why as well)?

finz: Large fish are easier - they are generally slower Tetras are a pain in the hoo hoo - they never stop.

tchill93x: P. acei? Reflect light..hard imo.

DogWalker: Interesting, I always thought smaller were easier because they require less depth of field... but if you have enough light I guess that problem goes away...

finz: Fish color can be dealt with and so can shiny scales.

finz: I usually shoot at F11 to F13 with flash.

finz: You get pretty good DOF and that increases the farther you are from the subject.

StructureGuy: Do you ever relocate your fish to a "photo tank."

finz: The tiny baby fry are hard to get good DOF with because you are so close.

finz: I don’t use photo tanks because the fish don't behave naturally in them.

tchill93x: Hard to focus too...auto or manual (the fry).

finz: Yes, fry are very hard to focus on - a lot of that is because of the distortion from the glass and water itself.

finz: Ever notice that fry shots are easier to get good focus when the fish are right up front?

DogWalker: Back to Theresa's question - how DO you get a true shot of a highly reflective fish like P. acei? (the best shots I've gotten of them were without flash, but as much light on the tank as I could muster). - more tinfoil tricks?

DogWalker: (PS: Sorry to keep grilling you, I just feel as if someone has opened the vault door to trade secrets and I cannot resist).

finz: That is where white reflectors come in handy - not direct light - not tin foil - you can change. the color of the reflections by using subtle coloring of the light you are using. If white doesn't work, try light gray.

tchill93x: a filter over the flash?

finz: More bouncing the flash from a colored reflector.

finz: I have used poster board - spray painted Styrofoam etc.

tchill93x: ah...good idea.

finz: Careful to set white balance to flash when changing color of reflectors.

finz: AWB (Auto White Balance) does weird stuff.

DogWalker: If you don't mind us prying just a bit into 'Finz the Photographer', have you ever published any fish pics commercially, or is that part strictly 'hobby'.

finz: The only fish pics published were in newsletters of clubs.

DogWalker: All just for us fellow fish keepers then? Lucky us!

finz: My paid gigs are all from weddings and portraits.

tchill93x: Planning on the cover of "Fish Fancy" DW?

DogWalker: Hmm, I could see wanting to shoot some fish...

tchill93x: So you are a photographer in your day job too?

finz: Yep the fish photos are really just hobby stuff.

finz: Day job is not photography - I work in a large call center.

finz: I do the portraits etc to make money to buy more camera stuff.

tchill93x: lol...good idea!

tchill93x: So how long did it take you to perfect your photography of fish...?

Jeff F.: Thanks again Finz. Hard to believe we have all these newbies and no one wanting to expand their knowledge.

finz: Digital cams are hugely more expensive than film.

DogWalker: Any advice for 'point-n-shoot' camera owners?

DogWalker: (other than get a DSLR)

finz: Most of the techniques I use for the fish, I developed in a few months time through experimentation.

finz: I used a point and shoot a lot in the beginning.

finz::: It was, however one that was able to use my current flash equipment.

finz:: I have had occasion to play with a few p&s cams that only have built in flash.

tchill93x: So what kind of equipment do you use for the amazing shots we see...a DSLR but with how many flashes and accessories?

finz: I ended up using various flash deflection techniques including tin foil and paper

tchill93x: how long have you been shooting fish?

finz: The photos I have been posting lately use one flash, and an IR controller. Occasionally, I use a second flash as fill.

tchill93x: I'm sorry...I am new at this, but do the IR work through your camera or is it a manual thing you set up?

finz: I started with fish when I bought my first auto-focus SLR but I can't remember for sure. when that was - maybe in the early 90's?

finz: Canon slave flashes use IR.

tchill93x: Those are the high end flashes right? I have a 220? I believe.

finz: Either an STE2 controller or the higher end flashes are needed to broadcast the signal.

DogWalker: Dare we delve into the realm of post-processing suggestions/tips, or are we pushing our luck?? :)

tchill93x: Go for it DW...Finz? What do you think?

finz: Not sure about the 430EX but the 550 and higher can be set to Master Mode.

tchill93x: over $400!

finz: I'm game.

DogWalker: Okay, color booster - fair or cheating? (I figure fair so long as it's just to make things look like they appear to the naked eye...)

tchill93x: :)

finz: Most of my post processing consists of re-sizing and sharpening - colors I try to keep as natural as possible.

DogWalker: Doesn't sharpening have drawbacks also though?

Seedy: sharpening or "unsharp mask?"

finz: Over sharpening looks nasty.

DogWalker: So the general advice would be - whatever adjustments you make, go easy – fair?

finz: I use Smart Sharpen, Unsharp mask, or Lab Mode sharpening.

finz: DW - yes try to keep it simple.

finz:The more you manipulate - the more obvious it is.

finz: When a photo is re-sized for the web, a certain amount of sharpening is needed to re-gain what was lost in the re-size.

DogWalker: Any reason to use other than RAW mode at all?

Jeff F.: I too, have to think about how far to sharpen my images I contribute even with my substandard camera.

finz: I shoot almost exclusively RAW mode.

finz: If I know someone will want a copy of a photo before I get a chance to convert it - I will shoot RAW+Jpeg.

Jeff F.: would be nice to have that option.

tchill93x: Do you use Canon or Nikon?

finz: Even with custom presets, I don't always like what Jpeg does to colors.

tchill93x: or something else?

finz: I use Canon.

tchill93x: jpeg changes colors?

finz: Frequently, the pre-set jpeg mode in cams will saturate colors as the photo is saved.

Seedy: Finz, how do you feel about correcting levels based on histograms?

finz: Sometimes, contrast and sharpen are increased as well.

finz: Histograms are a tool that can be useful or get in the way of creativity - I use them when they seem appropriate.

Jeff F.: Just adding stuff to the transcript for the general public. some of the finest photography ever..http://www.cichlidforums.com/showthread.php?t=29890

 

Seedy: I tend to adjust my levels when I'm shooting super small apertures and don't have enough light...do you think I'm hurting my image? I like the results but am I lowering my quality?

DogWalker: Good stuff Jeff - that's what we needed...

finz: Hehe - thanks Jeff, I miss that male fish, I lost him to dropsy but his kids live on.....

tchill93x: Your pictures are so beautiful; they almost look like a sculpture.

finz: Seedy - if you introduce noise - yes, but with digital it is frequently better to expose for the highlights and pull detail out of the shadows as necessary.

Seedy: Finz, here's an example of some macro shots I tweaked the levels on...what are your thoughts? Constructive criticism?

Seedy: http://www.cichlidforums.com/showthread.php?t=32536

finz: Those look fine.

Seedy: Thanks.

DogWalker: Going to have to call it a night. Finz, thanks a million for taking the time to answer all the questions. It was really worth it for me? I really think there are a lot of members who would like to take better pictures who would’ve benefited from this (if they’d take the trouble to show up!).

finz: You're welcome DW.

Jeff F.: Those are really kewl Seedy!!!

Seedy: Finz, from what you have seen of my more recent photography, do you have any suggestions for me?

Seedy: Thanks Jeff.

tchill93x: They are very good!

finz: You seem to have the technical part down well Seedy it's all practice and play from here.

Seedy: Thank you, I take that as a high compliment from you Finz :)

finz: I would try giving yourself lighting challenges like the black fish/background we were discussing earlier.

finz: You might have missed that.

finz: I hope nobody looks at my typing too closely.

finz: I seem to have multiple thumbs.

Jeff F.: FINZ RULZ.

Seedy: I didn't, I'll read the transcript later...because my camera/flash combo is an optical slave, do you have any suggestions for improving my luck? I seem to get my sb-800 washed out...I suspect I don't have the settings on it correct as I don't fully understand the settings on the flash itself.

Seedy: ...correction...not really "washed out"...I find if the flash is on top of the tank, I don't get the top lighting I want....should I consider reflectors or some other setting on it?

finz: I frequently set the flash compensation on my camera at minus 1/2 or 3/4 stops.

Seedy: the on camera flash or your remotes?

finz: on the camera - that will affect all flashes at the same amount.

Seedy: Even when they are optical slaves?

Seedy: If you are familiar with shooting with an sb-800 in remote mode, would you be able to help explain some of the settings on the flash itself? I don't really understand what I'm doing with those settings.

finz: Not sure how the Nikon flash system works but it should be ETTL which means shutter will close when exposure is complete as set on the camera.

finz: I'm afraid I'm not familiar with Nikon's system but I could look for a primer for you.

finz: Just a sample of some Photoshop fun.

finz: For those who can't afford Photoshop - I noticed Paint Shop Pro Ultimate Photox2 is on sale this week.

tchill93x: So are Nikon and Canon the two best cameras around...seems to be what everyone is using...

tchill93x: Seedy, aren't there things on line that you can get for free that do the same thing?

finz: Nikon and Canon are top players.

Seedy: agreed.

finz: The free programs don't do quite as much.

Seedy: what about mumia?

tchill93x: Pentax used to be what I used back when it was film.

finz: never heard of that one.

tchill93x: Mumia?

finz: Pentax is coming out with nice Cameras lately.

Seedy: I saw a really sweet digital back on a really nice mumia 35mm....it seemed extremely expensive...I think the digital back was 5 times what my camera cost....

finz: I think it took them a while to get on the digital bandwagon.

tchill93x: too bad, they were the camera to have 20 years ago.

finz: My Dad had a Pentax spotmatic - nearly indestructible.

Seedy: Finz, my father takes a lot of pictures of Bald Eagles flying around his lake house....do you think he would be better to get a multiplier for his 18-135mm and a something to 300mm....my step father is trying to get him from a D80 to a D300...do you think he'll notice a difference?

Seedy: ....or is this bordering too much on "what camera should I buy" type questions?

tchill93x: Wow, you need a very expensive set up to get raptors in flight.

finz: Birds in flight are tough subjects make sure predictive focus works well on any lens he choses.

Seedy: tchill...I can show you some pretty dang cool pics he's taken...and he has NO formal training

Seedy: How would one be able to test the "predictive focus" of a particular lens?

finz: That's awesome - I think the pros use prime telephotos for that kind of stuff.

Seedy: What do you think though...should he drop the cash for a BIG lens or go with the multiplier for what he has?

finz: Lens reviews on BobAtkins.com.

finz: multipliers above 1.5X will decrease the auto focus reliability.

Seedy: Good to know....I don't think his hands are stable enough for manual focus.

Seedy: I think he's considering a 1.7 multiplier.

finz: That shouldn’t be too much.

Seedy: Could you explain how a multiplier works? Is it just a magnifier?

tchill93x: http://www.michaelfurtman.com This is a guy that specializes in raptor and nature photography...he tells about what he uses. He has amazing pics.

tchill93x: yes, please explain finz.

finz: I'm afraid I don't know - only that it is best if made for the lens in use.

Seedy: Would I want to consider a multiplier for when I'm using my 105mm micro/macro?

finz: I don't really see an advantage there - the macro will be much sharper without it.

Seedy: OK cool.

Seedy: tchill, a macro lens is usually used for extreme close up pics (like those pleco pics I posted).

tchill93x: yes, it is my dream lens.

tchill93x: my wide angle takes very nice shots close up...of fish too, but not amazing shots like Finz.

tchill93x: I've got great equipment; just don't know how to use it very well.

Seedy: I really enjoy macro photography myself....however it opens up all kinds of issues with getting enough light to get a small enough aperture to get a good depth of focus....

finz: I do have a lot of fun with my macro lens - 1 week old Betta fry.

tchill93x: WOW...that is amazing!

tchill93x: I had a little rusty like that, but couldn't even focus on it manually or auto.

tchill93x: looked like a fuzzy brown critter.

finz: They have new ring-flash attachments now that help in that regard and cost less than a standard ring flash.

Seedy: LED rings?

tchill93x: Ring flash -what is that, never heard of that.

Seedy: tchill...I believe it is a flash attachment that goes around the outside of you lens.

Seedy: It puts a ring of light on your macro subject.

finz: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/515452REG/Bower_SFDRF_Macro_Ringlight_Flash.html

tchill93x: you are right Seedy...never heard of such a thing. Very nice.

finz: Here is the real deal.

finz: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/194480USA/Canon_2356A002_MR_14EX_TTL_Macro_Ring.html

finz: This type of flash illuminates subjects even if they are right in front of the lens.

Seedy: Finz, I appreciate your insight. Thank You.