fish speaker: OK...Tonight's topic is Crenicichla...the pike cichlids.

fish speaker: I have just a few comments about the way I want to proceed tonight.

fish speaker: I have some points that I want to hit, but I would like to encourage participation.

fish speaker: So, if you have any questions, comments, or if you would like to share some of your own experiences, please feel free to let me know.

fish speaker: To start things off, I'll tell you a few things about myself. I'm a crenicichlaholica pike Cichlid enthusiast.

fish speaker: I have an addiction that has me scrambling for tank space any time a new list comes out from one of the importers.

fish speaker: That being said, I've only kept pikes for a few years...for a reason I'll get to in a second.

fish speaker: Crenicichla is a very exciting genus: lots of species, with new ones being discovered, new ones being described, and new ones being imported all the time.

fish speaker: There are some great resources out there if you're interested in pikes. One that should be browsed by anyone with an interest in pikes is Vinny Kutty's site, Mostly Cichlids

fish speaker: Not only is the site full of great information about pikes, he also has lots of information about collecting in South America. I highly recommend it.

fish speaker: Another great resource: other hobbyists. The exchange of experiences and sharing of information among people who are passionate about their pikes is one of the best ways to learn.

fish speaker: As I mentioned, I've only kept pikes for a few years, mainly due to a myth that I want to try to dispel. The myth deals with ...

fish speaker: Aggression.

fish speaker: I had always heard horror stories about how aggressive pikes were...and quite frankly, I was afraid to try them. I think this discourages lots of people from keeping pikes, and based on my experiences, and what I've heard from others, it's just that a myth.

fish speaker: Pikes are like other cichlids you'll get different levels of aggression from individual fish but most of the aggression you'll get from pikes is conspecific.

fish speaker: This is subject to a common sense warning: most are piscivorous, so fish that are small enough for them to swallow often are.

fish speaker: ...or, I should say, fish that the pike THINKS are small enough to swallow...well, they'll try

fish speaker: Other large cichlids tend to do well with them. In fact, I would say that most of mine are less aggressive towards other cichlids than the average Central American Cichlid. Like I said, your mileage may vary.

fish speaker: Solace (mod here, and a member of our local aquaria club) is the person I credit for getting me interested in trying pikes. He recommended that it was more useful to think about pikes as 'skinny cichlids' not really anything more dangerous than that.

fish speaker: All that being said, pikes are not for everyone. The conspecific aggression can be intense: I lost 2 pikes (sp. "Xingu I" or orange pikes) when one decided to swallow the other got it all the way down, and it killed him.

Seedy: ouch.

fish speaker: Many times, young pikes (especially of the lugubris group we'll go through the various groups shortly) get along fine when they are young. Then, without warning, during the ~teenage~ years, they decide that they hate their siblings.

fish speaker: Seedy: ...it was brutal, and tragic. A 9" pike choked on a 6" one.

fish speaker: Again, different fish will behave differently: I have a group of 6 cobra pikes in a 90-gallon tank soon to move to a 125. Ideally, I'll eventually have some pairing off, and I'll keep a pair in the 125.

RustyNut: There is some kind of ironic justice in that.....

fish speaker: (I have to admit...if he hadn't died, I'd have really admired his ability to swallow something that close to his own size

Glaive: Here is an example of cich1's Crenicichla sp Venezuela wolfing down a large shrimp

fish speaker: I mentioned the cobra pikes: The largest in the group is currently over a foot in length, and so far they all have perfect fins no real sign of aggression in the tank yet.

fish speaker: This is amazing to me, since I know that I have at least 2 females in there, and most of the fish are going into their adult coloration.

fish speaker: With most of the lugubris-group pikes, the pikes will go through at least one major color change before reaching maturity.

fish speaker: With the cobras, unfortunately it changes from a nice-looking snake skin like pattern to a more or less solid red.

fish speaker: Water parameters for pikes. I'm always asked about this. While most are from soft water rivers, with low pH, it's probably more important to keep the water stable and clean, instead of worrying about hardness and pH.

Seedy: Temp?

fish speaker: pH is probably more important for breeding than for maintenance and many of the lugubris pikes have not been bred in aquaria.

fish speaker: Temp is also not a huge issue for most...

fish speaker: I keep most around 80 F

fish speaker: ...but the ones from Uruguay generally can go in an unheated tank...

fish speaker: ...they do best with at least several months of temps around 65 F

fish speaker: Feeding can be a big issue

fish speaker: Since many pikes haven't been bred in captivity, many are wild-caught

fish speaker: ...and some are very resistant to eating anything but live fish

fish speaker: hehe...Rusty's got a point

fish speaker: I have never had to struggle to get my pikes to take krill, but some of them will ONLY eat krill...

RustyNut: What about live foods?

fish speaker: A few will eat anything that i throw into the tank (convicts, pellets, convicts, etc.)

fish speaker: Live foods, such as culls, are fine.

fish speaker: Feeders...I don't use

Seedy: How nutritious is a diet of mostly Krill?

fish speaker: If you have a pike that will only take live foods, it can be a struggle

RustyNut: What about gut loading the feeders?

fish speaker: I don't think it's ideal, Seedy: , but at least they eat.

fish speaker: Gut loading is a great trick.

fish speaker: What I have had the best success with is keeping the pikes with a big fish that eats pellets...

fish speaker: ...they frequently will learn from the other fish that pellets are actually food

fish speaker: For my picky eaters, I try to feed a variety of frozen foods with vitamin supplements, as well as krill

fish speaker: Any other questions about feeding?

Glaive: do they feed better with cover or out in the open?

fish speaker: Most of mine will attack the food with wild abandon!

fish speaker: Only one of mine likes to dart out from cover and retreat back to eat

RustyNut: What size food items are best?

fish speaker: Depends on the species/size of the pikes

Seedy: ANy idea what there feeding habbits are like in the wild? I know they are piscivores, but do we know much of there hunting style?

fish speaker: My foot-long cobras eat krill that's about market shrimp size

RustyNut: 3mm pellets? 5mm?

fish speaker: Ambush predators, in general.

DogWalker: How often do you feed yours?

RustyNut: and how much

fish speaker: The ones I have that eat pellets will eat almost any sinking pellets

fish speaker: they don't tend to be surface feeders

fish speaker: ...although I believe the cobras would attack anything, anywhere...and remove lots of water from the tank to do so

Glaive: Have you ever hand fed them?

fish speaker: I feed mine 5 days per week...

fish speaker: I have not hand fed the pikes...

fish speaker: (I have a midas and a Neolamprologus tetracanthus that I hand feed)

fish speaker: On the question of how much I feed...

fish speaker: I tend to feed my pikes a lot of food...their stomachs are nicely elastic

fish speaker: On the other hand, i have a dwarf pike that just gets a few pellets per day

fish speaker: tonight is a fasting night, btw

Jeff F.: mine fast Sundays thanks to a tip from you great contributors!

RustyNut: 2 on 1 off schedule?

fish speaker: yes, 2 on 1 off

Seedy: What is the advantage of fasting, or the danger of daily feeding?

fish speaker: ...also, since we're running past the "normal" end time, just let me know when to cut it off...otherwise, I might keep going for hours

RustyNut: You can go for hours

fish speaker: For me, the fasting helps me as much as it helps the fish: feeding takes about 1.5 hours per night.

RustyNut: Why don't we stop questioning you and let you finish up so that we can have time for questions at the end

Jeff F.: WOOOOOOOOW!!

fish speaker: keep the questions coming...otherwise i'll get into something boring like "species groups"

fish speaker: Or something controversial like HITH

Jeff F.: Please do-

DogWalker: what are the largest and smallest species (adult size)?

Jeff F.: And best for the inexperienced

RustyNut: C. Regani is only 2" I noticed

fish speaker: Tough to give absolute answers, DW...

DogWalker: (the cull disposal angle does have its appeal)

fish speaker: for some of the larger species, we don't yet know how large they may grow...

fish speaker: Vittata may be the largest when all is said and done

fish speaker: ~2'

fish speaker: Best for the inexperienced?

Seedy: What would be your suggestions for tank sizes for the more commonly available pikes?....and what kind of aquascaping? Any special considerations for housing them?

RustyNut: ?me okay 6-ft tank is out.... 2-ft fish need 3ft wide tank minimum.... so now its at least an 8-fter!

fish speaker: Probably one of the saxatilis, or spangled pikes

fish speaker: the spangled pikes are smaller, easier to spawn...not picky on water quality

fish speaker: Tank size is a good issue

Jeff F.: Thanx

fish speaker: most dwarf pikes would work in a 30 gallon tank

RustyNut: http://www.geocities.com/NapaValley/5491/saxatilispage.html

fish speaker: although compressiceps (green dwarf) is probably too aggressive for anything smaller than 4'

DogWalker: Since some species can live in somewhat cooler water, are they illegal to import/sell anywhere that you're aware of?

DogWalker: (risk of release and feral populatins becoming established...)

fish speaker: i'm not aware of any import restrictions, but would have to check with the importers on that...

Jeff F.: Hawaii?

fish speaker: I don't think they really have any awareness of the Uruguay temperatures

Seedy: Jeff, I believe they are established in some water ways/ponds in HI

Jeff F.: I thought one of our regulars said NO pike in HI

fish speaker: Back on the tank size question...

fish speaker: some of the mid-sized spangled pikes (like my menezesi pair) would work fine in a 55-75

fish speaker: Larger is always better, like with most cichlids...

fish speaker: And the lugubris group pikes (the big lugs), min. size of 125

fish speaker: They are fairly flexible, so would have less "turnaround" trouble than a chunkier cichlid

fish speaker: ...but the water quality would be my main concern with most of these guys...

fish speaker: They produce lots of waste...or at least they do if you feed them like i do

fish speaker: And the big lugubris group pikes are very prone to HITH

fish speaker: While I think it's a stress-related syndrome, keeping the water quality good is at least the best way to keep the stress in check

fish speaker: I've currently got fry from one pair of Crenicichla menezesi...will certainly announce if I ever manage to get any of the big ones to spawn.

DogWalker: More PICS!

fish speaker: I need to get some new pike-tures posted...

fish speaker: Since we're close to 10, and i haven't eaten yet, do we want to open it up for questions? Summary of the species groups?

Jeff F.: A nice borrowed pic! http://www.geocities.com/napavalley/5491/proteusfemale.jpg P.S. Go Vikings!

DogWalker: nice Jeff.

fish speaker: (action shot of 2 of my Cr. punctata...another from uruguay

Jeff F.: Nice FS! I think this species interest me because they've always been one of my favorite to catch!!

fish speaker: Really, Jeff? Where do you fish for them?

RustyNut: What would you reccomend in a 125g?

Jeff F.: They're actually Northern pike!(LOL)

fish speaker: Got it. :D

RustyNut: And tankmates?

fish speaker: (here's a bad shot of my cobra group...highly recommended)

RustyNut: Nice fish!

Jeff F.: Nice coloration.

fish speaker: At adult size, a pair of cobras in a 125 would be about right...

fish speaker: or lenticulata...i have 4 in a 125 at the moment...probably my largest...not quite as outgoing as the cobras

fish speaker: (my male Cr. menezesi)

 

RustyNut: wow that is some picture!

RustyNut: Tells quite the tale!

fish speaker: My most expensive pikes, Cr. celidochilus (with the lip spots...and with gymno. tankmates)

fish speaker: That's really just the tip of the iceberg with pikes...

fish speaker: ...but that's all I have time for tonight. Truly enjoyed it!

RustyNut: Thank you FS