: Tonight's chat goals are to cover
equipment and maintenance.
crazyfishlady: That's all?
Jeff F.: If we're talking
maintenance, can you tell me how often I should break out my cascade
1500 and clean things?
Glaive: yeah cfl that's it
Chromedome: WooHoo, nice group!
Glaive: I like to clean my
cannisters every other week
Glaive: Hey Chrome
StructureGuy: Every other week?
Glaive: yes Kevin every other
crazyfishlady: Wow. I'm
Glaive: most cannisters are
simple to break down and clean, my Fluval usually takes 5 minutes
StructureGuy: Um I'm real
Glaive: for those with MTS once
a month is fine
Jeff F.: Thanks......I was under
the impression that you could check them monthly after initial
crazyfishlady: It takes me about
5 minutes per sponge in my Renas.....It might not, if I were cleaning
them every other week though.:whistle:
Glaive: In truth Jeff they could
likely go 2-3 months but I am a water quality stickler
ocdreamin: what's MTS again?
Glaive: when I first started I
was cleaning the cannister every two months and that was about my
time frame cfl
Glaive: multiple tank syndrome
StructureGuy: My big Eheim goes
2 to 3 months
Glaive: I personally run a
collection of filters on my tank
ocdreamin: Does anyone have an
opinion on the Mag 350?
Glaive: Good poop collector,
very nice mechanical in my experience
ocdreamin: I like that I can see
the water level and don't have to unplug it to clean it
ocdreamin: I only wish it had
more filter surface
Chromedome: Magnums are crap,
toss it out. Waste of money, I tried one on my 125 when I first set
it up. The problem is the cheap screen in the filter, it collapses
and won't recover shape.
Glaive: there you go a more
educated response ;)
ocdreamin: only if you go to long
Jeff F.: Questions like that
would certainly be affected by the tank size and bioload you were
trying to sustain. True?
Glaive: absolutely Jeff
Chromedome: Two weeks, maybe
Jeff F.: Hello Mis
maccichlid Okay, here's a
question... if you have an Emperor 280 / 400, or any of the penguin
line, they have standard cartridges that are blue floss + charcoal.
In previous threads, it's been established that the charcoal is not
your friend after a couple of weeks (max). So question is, what kind
of filter media would you use in these models?
ocdreamin: plus, I use bio
ceramic material instead of carbon
MisanthropeKitty: hey everyone
Glaive: hey kitty
maccichlid: given that you'd
have to conform to their shape?
Glaive: I personally like
ionized register filters...
crazyfishlady: Mac, I have heard
of people cutting out the filter floss &amp; putting them
back together with rubber bands or hot glue
Glaive: there are house hold
central air and heat filters that go inside the registers
crazyfishlady: I personally, use
the cartridges anyway, but probably don't replace them as often as I
ocdreamin: okay - you can
explain that one to me - ionized register filters
Glaive: a register is a fancy
word for the vents in your house
Chromedome: I'm still lost. How
the heck do you adapt that for water filtration?
crazyfishlady: It would be great
if the manufacturers made carbon-less cartridges. For tanks that are
being medicated, and for those who prefer not to use carbon.
fish speaker: my tap water
dissolves the Emperor cartridges, so I have to change them before too
many weeks pass
Glaive: the material is
extremely thin and very effective
ocdreamin: probably the
cellulose, not fiberglass, I assume
Glaive: it's something akin to a
scotch bright pad
Glaive: I may have a picture
maccichlid: could someone cough
up a link to something i might in a home depot or some such?
crazyfishlady: I should clarify:
Cut away the floss, remove the carbon, and glue the floss back on to
Glaive: yes I can Mac
maccichlid: CFL... i thought of
doing that, but i too have noticed the floss falls apart when
Jeff F.: I don't replace them as
I should.....BUT I'm smart enough to look at my bio wheels and see
whats going on and rinse other filters in established water. It works
for me as a rookie because I pay attention to EVERY aspect of the bio
fish speaker: I have too many
filters running to even consider too much in the way of DIY
Glaive: cfl is outlining a very
typical solution used by many
crazyfishlady: I have heard of
others cutting the media cartridge for the Emperors in half &
stuffing/securing with floss to use as a carbon-less cartridge.
maccichlid and the cartridges
are expensive for a skinflint like myself :)
Chromedome: I just cut the tops
of my Emperor cartridge and pour out the carbon. The set I'm
currently using have been holding together for 8-9 months.
Chromedome: I should say, I cut
a slot in the floss at the top of the cartridge.
maccichlid: Chromedome, you're
able to do repeat cleanings on the floss?
maccichlid: i get about three
cleanings before i get crazy holes
Chromedome: Wash them weekly.
maccichlid: am i just to rough
crazyfishlady: Either that, or
you've got crazy water pressure. :p
Chromedome: That's possible. All
I do is rinse thoroughly for a couple minutes.
Glaive: something similar to
that is what I use
StructureGuy: I run one Penguin
330 (mechanical filtration + water movement) and one AC110 (for
biological + water movement.)on most of my tanks I use two sponges
for the AC110 so there is no filter expense. I rinse the filter pads
for the Penguin and use them for about 3 weeks
fish speaker: whats your pH run,
maccichlid: about 8, 8.2 out of
Jeff F.: This is a chicken or
egg kinda situation from my inexperienced point of view. From what
I've learned, you simply have to make sure that the essentials are
replaced or compensated for in one or another part of "YOUR"
structure. Am I wrong?
Glaive: that's fairly accurate
Jeff F.: "Fairly"?
Glaive: I personally do my best
to increase the capability of my filters by the media I use
Chromedome: I have too many
small tanks, so I mostly use old box filters in the tanks, and set up
an overflow line. But then, I have my own well, so water is
relatively cheap to change.
StructureGuy: Boy, I wish I had
a well instead of city water.
Glaive: I use sponges, vent
filters and the biomedia at hand
Glaive: in my Fluval for
Glaive: first are the sponges
crazyfishlady: What's a vent
Glaive: from there my first
basket has a few layers of register filters and ceramic rings
Glaive: that cfl
Glaive: the next basket has
crushed lava rock because I am too cheap to buy more rings
crazyfishlady: Sorry. I guess I
should be looking at links. :oops:
Glaive: my last basket is full
of aragonite crushed coral
Glaive: no worries cfl
Glaive: I have been running the
same sponges and vent filters for about.... 5 years now
Glaive: I rinse sponges in tank
water and hit the vent filters with the kitchen sink sprayer
Glaive: I rarely if ever rinse
my biological media as most particles are not getting past the
sponges and vent filters
crazyfishlady: How do those of
you who use sponge filters keep them from redepositing all the crap
back into the water while you're trying to maintain them?
MisanthropeKitty: i hold a bowl
under mine when i lift from the water
Glaive: I would use my fish tank
only Tupperware to scoop them out cfl
MisanthropeKitty: thats exactly
it Alex.. fish only Tupperware
Chromedome: Yes, I have many
plastic food containers, and just lift the sponge in that from the
StructureGuy: I squeeze the
sponges in a bucket of tank water
Glaive: ditto SG on the cleaning
crazyfishlady: Yeah. It's
getting them from the tank to the bucket, that I'd think would be
StructureGuy: It is
Glaive: hence why SG needs
Tupperware/butter bowls for his tanks ;)
Glaive: I am curious what types
of filters everyone here has used?
StructureGuy: Sometimes I just
move the whole AC 110 to the sink to remove the sponges
Glaive: I used to do that with
the Fluval housing
StructureGuy: Tupperware is for
Jeff F.: I'm with ya SG. Just
take em there and rinse in tank water I just took out
Glaive: when I had various hobs
I would lift them out and set them on the rim of my bucket
fish speaker: I do that with my
Renas...have only dropped one :red:
ocdreamin: I've done that
Glaive: now I don't have any
hobs, I run a cannister and two rigged power heads
Glaive: hey rusty
RustyNut: I must have missed it
ocdreamin: I used a hob ON a
bucket to transport fish
RustyNut: Hi all!
ocdreamin: welcome RN
Glaive: great idea OC
StructureGuy: I won a Rena in a
club raffle and I'm surprised how much I like it. (easy maintenance)
tchill93x: Are all canisters
modifiable/customizable when it comes to filter choices? (Hi Rusty)
Chromedome: Hiya Rusty!
RustyNut: Hi chrome
fish speaker: I've currently got
7 XP 3s and 4s in service
ocdreamin: this is the first
feedback I've heard on Renas
Glaive: I don't think all are
created equal in this manner tchill
Jeff F.: Hi Rusty
Glaive: Rena's are definitely
more mechanically inclined
Jeff F.: My Cascade is doing
Glaive: to have a maximum of
media diversity I favor basket models
RustyNut: Agreed Glaive
fish speaker: With the Renas,
the xp# describes how many baskets it contains
RustyNut: inclined even :D
StructureGuy: Why fluidized sand
beds? I thought that was mostly a salt water thing.
RustyNut: FSB are perfectly
usable in the FW environment
RustyNut: Just as a foam
fractionator is usable on ponds...
Chromedome: Indeed, the Zoo in
Milwaukee has a massive sand bed filter for their huge SA tank, which
houses several 3 foot Pacus.
ocdreamin: what the heck is a
StructureGuy: foam fractionator
sounds like something from Back To The Future.
ocdreamin: the flux capacitor
ocdreamin: or do you mean Mr.
RustyNut: NO its a mechanical
means of removing dissolved proteins from the water column
Chromedome: basically removes
organic scum from the surface of the water. Helps oxygen exchange.
RustyNut: Chrome is correct
Chromedome: Actually, I think I
described a skimmer, but they usually work in tandem.
ocdreamin: I was never good at
StructureGuy: Same think as a
RustyNut: No a skimmer is a
ocdreamin: is there a foam
RustyNut: though functionally
StructureGuy: No pond in my
future. 11 huge crappy black walnut trees in my back yard. (Plus it
sounds like work.)
RustyNut: Fractionators always
use venturis while skimmer often use a mechanical paddle
Glaive: explain venturis
RustyNut: venturi is where a
fluid flows through a constricted pipe increasing its pressure
(think high pressure washer)
RustyNut: the venturi then
sprays the water into itself crating foam
RustyNut: the foam is the
protein buildup and as it builds up it is removed
Glaive: how serious is this in
RustyNut: Usually there is a
collection cup just like on a skimmer
RustyNut: Cannot be used in
RustyNut: just not enough
protein to churn the water
RustyNut: but works well in
ponds where there is huge amounts of organic wastes
Jeff F.: Is this a PM thing or
do we lose the whole room
RustyNut: Anything else you want
to discuss toss it out there
Jeff F.: Our Original was Vics
and your the master Rusty....... Just toss something.
tchill93x: Wasn't it shellies?
ocdreamin: so the fluidized sand
beds is where you run piping under your sand, right?
RustyNut: I thought this was
RustyNut: Glaive, I need clarity
StructureGuy: Jeff's got Vics on
the brain recently. I gotta stop posting pictures.
RustyNut: Nice pics too BTW
tchill93x: Ditto on the NICE
Jeff F.: True.....So what do our
StructureGuy: The thread is
RustyNut: OC getting to your
question, no the fluidized bed filter is beyond a trickle filter
RustyNut: The sand is the
Glaive: and the surface area is
ocdreamin: the objective is to
pump water through the bed from the bottom, right?
StructureGuy: Whatever you do
for mbuna pretty much works for vics. We'll save the rest for
RustyNut: A high pressure input
source is sprayed down into a container of sand causing it to become
"airborne" in the water or also called "Fluidized"
and the water runs through this bed of fluidized sand just like water
flows through the ceramic rings in your canister
RustyNut: Surface area is off
Glaive: I have seen
approximately 1 liters of sand biologically filter several hundred
ocdreamin: like bioballs... but
Jeff F.: Sorry, I just think
that SJ makes things happen in our "Cichlid" world that ARE
the best in web time world around,
RustyNut: However the
oxygenation is not as good as in a trickle setup
ocdreamin: and all surfaces are
ocdreamin: so this happens apart
from the tank itself?
Jeff F.: SG.............That is.
Glaive: yes oc
RustyNut: Kevin - Vics = Mbuna +
an extra male? :)
RustyNut: OC yes it does
RustyNut: Usually in a tube
ocdreamin: how do you control
StructureGuy: Yea. Plus careful
non-similar species stocking
Glaive: I will try to draw up a
few examples to add into the transcript
RustyNut: The sand only rises so
high and the water just spills off above that point
Glaive: OC you match the flow
rate of the pump to the device
ocdreamin: and are there
ocdreamin: or do you never
replace the sand?
Glaive: not if you tune it right
ocdreamin: I like it
RustyNut: Exactly when tuned
right you won't lose anything
Jeff F.: Nice to see the core
group here if nothing else. YOU guys inspire me more than you know
and I pass all info along.......Thanks
ocdreamin: well, you could make
the cylinder as tall as you needed to
RustyNut: Here is an example of
a commercial FSB
Glaive: we have a cannister
question involving the "must haves" which I would guess to
be media related
RustyNut: I like this model
too... Haven't used it myself but have seen it in operation
ocdreamin: you could "harvest"
established water with enough bioload and enough sand
RustyNut: One critical problem
with the FSB is power outages can kill the whole thing
Glaive: In truth there are two
"classes" of cannister, mechanical and biological
RustyNut: Once the sand bed
settles down the bacteria die rapidly
Glaive: due to lack of oxygen
ocdreamin: which is why I've
never fallen for the "live sand" gimmick
RustyNut: You still can't
Glaive: okay guys lets table FSB
for a short bit and work out some more basics
Glaive: this transcript will be
tough enough with out my typos
Glaive: so getting back to our
old faithful cannisters
StructureGuy: I've been meaning
to make a DIY egg tumbler. There are occasions when I mistakenly
strip too soon.
Glaive: tchill please ask your
tchill93x: I just wanted to know
what the must haves are for a canister-I need one soon.
Glaive: do you have a budget?
Glaive: what would your budget
tchill93x: $200 and under - was
a Reaction 4 stage canister that I liked but no one would reply to my
Glaive: with a budget like that
I would likely go with an Eheim
Glaive: any one second that?
ocdreamin: I didn't know you
could get an Eheim for that
RustyNut: I know SteveC would :D
RustyNut: Ehiems can be had for
tchill93x: When I looked -
anything for a 125 gal in the Eheim line was way more than $200
Glaive: how big is your tank
Jeff F.: Is there where we
should ask tank size and bio-load?
Glaive: probably Jeff lol
Glaive: so we have a 125
Glaive: what fish tchill?
StructureGuy: Combine a smaller
(cheaper) canister with cheaper HOB's.
tchill93x: Understocked - small
fish - 2 BN plecos, 3 Crabros, 6 Acei, 6 Rusty, 2 ? yellow ones
Jeff F.: How many fish...what
kind of fish would you like to add?
Glaive: cannisters typically
generate arguments lol
Glaive: the think about a lot of
cannisters is that they heavily slanted towards biological filtration
Glaive: and biological
filtration benefits from lower flow rates
RustyNut: Or Dwell times
Jeff F.: Besides that.....we can
estimate true values it takes to take care of.......
RustyNut: Or media contact time
Glaive: I would happily pair a
lower flow cannister with a high flow hob
tchill93x: I have Proquatics
HOB's that are a pain to get going after turning off - I have to
Koralia's=800gph plus the HOB's now.
Glaive: once you hit 125 gallons
you can stray away from a 10x filtration rate so long as you plan it
Jeff F.: It truly does come down
to knowing your fish and the perimeters within when it comes down to
all...Am I wrong?
RustyNut: Correct Jeff
Glaive: I am getting price
ocdreamin: I have to get going -
good seeing you guys (and gals)
Glaive: Big Als has Marineland
emperor 400s for $40
RustyNut: TC OC
RustyNut: What deal that is
Glaive: pair that with an Eheim
Ecco Comfort Canister Filter- 2236 for `$100
tchill93x: Would you team that
up with a smaller canister?
Glaive: I think that would work
out pretty well for a 125
Glaive: or go for the Eheim
Filter 2217- Plus for $135
Glaive: including shipping you
should be under $200
Jeff F.: Why go small when you
could get big for nothing when researched right on E-Bay?
Glaive: and the Eheim is a kit
Glaive: you could also go that
Glaive: basically tchill I would
pick out a quality high flow HOB and pair it with a quality decent
tchill93x that sounds like a
good plan...could I still try that hydroponics DIY project (plants in
tub-nitrate reduction experiment?) by rerouting the canister? Long
Glaive: in your price range I
suggest Eheim as it can be done
StructureGuy: The best thing
about the Eheim is zero noise.
Glaive: you could though I would
suggest doing that with a separate pump
Jeff F.: My cascade is silent
tchill93x: I like quiet.
Glaive: your hydroponic idea
will benefit greatly from a very low flow
RustyNut: Just to note that the
Fluvals are also very quiet
Glaive: yes the only reason my
Fluval is making noise right now is because the return line is above
the water line
Glaive: does that help out some
RustyNut: I wouldn't reroute the
cannister... the separate pump sounds much better
tchill93x: Some? You guys are
awesome - I've been schooled by the best! Thanks!
Glaive: it would give more
control over flow rates
tchill93x: Is it necessary to
have slower flow rates?
Glaive: hmm seems the great
Julie war of 08 is heating up
RustyNut: flow rates for the
hydro setup should be down in the 100gph range really
Glaive: lower rusty
Glaive: even on a 125 I'd aim
for 50-60 gph
RustyNut: true but I am thinking
pump size minus the head
Glaive: depends on the setup
Glaive: I would run it at the
same level and eliminate head
Glaive: just run the hydro where
the plants can get sunlight
Jeff F.: Glad you could be here.
We usually have a discussion that leads to even more confusion for us
who don't know the other side!
Glaive: do we have any other
questions? we can talk maintenance more equipment pretty open really
RustyNut: How about Nitrate
RustyNut: Oooh nice
Glaive: if you would like to
Glaive: yeah I'll be dealing out
a vacuuming over sand video
Glaive: okay right before
nitrate reactors, lets sound off on cheap durable media
Glaive: Jeff, Tchill you are the
resident least experienced, I would like to see the chat cover a
little basic ground if possible, any ideas/suggestions/questions
RustyNut: For Cheap durable
media.... Sponges and Ceramics
StructureGuy: So I'm pretty
amazed at how many different filter things you guys have tried. I
just do the same thing all over the place and end up with lots of
Glaive: I like crashed lava rock
sponges and those register/vent filters
StructureGuy: How does one ever
come up with a bizarre register filter thought?
Glaive: My mother suffers from
RustyNut: 99 Drops perspiration
and 1 drop inspiration
Glaive: I decided to go check
out filters for registers to help her out
Glaive: I found a package for $7
and read the product spec sheet and realized the ones I got were fish
Glaive: I looked at the
materials sold in fish stores and realized that I had something that
had the potential to last longer and be more effective
StructureGuy: Actually I might
order some now. Are they super-duper mechanical filters?
Glaive: so I gave it a go in my
ac quick filter
Glaive: they really filter
particles nicely and they are easy to clean
Glaive: I hit them with the
kitchen sink sprayer
Glaive: I use mine for
Glaive: I think my sheets are 6
inches by 16 inches and I got 30 in a pack
tchill93x: So it sounds like
none of you order the filters sold by canister companies - you all
come up with your own? What else can you use? Can you use batting
from fabric stores?
Glaive: I think i got the
package 5 years ago and I still have 24-25 of the things
Glaive: as long as it is not
Glaive: the only thing I use are
the hagen sponges and that is because I use the originals that came
with the filters
Glaive: when those give out I
will go buy a big sheet of medium density sponge from Homedepot
tchill93x: I didn't even know
they had such a thing at Homedepot...