emartin: Alright so how is everybody? What fish does everybody
mostly keep? (So I can get an idea if I could use abbreviations for fish or
write out the full scientific names for ones I am referring to)
sepratbill: mostly mbuna here, but I've got 4 Cyrtocara moorii
why_spyder: I keep Malawians - mostly mbuna
Glaive: I personally keep Tangs: Julies, Xenos, Comps, and a
shellie species. I have kept S. fryeri in the past
Parrothead: Just coming back to cichlids, planning haps and peacocks,
currently glass box cycling, no fish
CrazyFishMama: am new and in love with Acei and Yellow Labs but don't
have any yet trying to learn
PhishNFilly: Pseudotropheus saulosi / Rusties
Rich B.: Big on Aul. few haps, few mbuna, few tangs, etc.
AmayaOkami: I got saulosi
tchill93x: p. crabros, acei, mbuna only (well bn pleco, etc)
RustyNut: I prefer dwarf mbuna
PhishNFilly: Apisto/Blue rams
emartin: I keep mostly Malawi Haplochromines and some Aulonocara,
with one token mbuna (yellow Labidochromis). I have kept wild Altolamprologus
calvus yellow (I forgot the location...Nkanda maybe?) bred a few times but I
never saved the fry. Other than that the only other Tanganyikan fish I kept was
Neolamprologus sexfasciatus (just a solo individual) and then catfish
emartin: like Phyllonemus typus (currently still have) and
emartin: so don't ask me about mbuna or Tanganyikan fish, I'm the
absolutely wrong person to ask lol
Parrothead: quick question, a long time ago, I had what was called,
common name, Gold Synodontis, any idea what the scent. Name would be, I want
another but haven't found anything under gold
emartin: did it come from Tanganyika?
emartin: ones that come to mind that are a little gold-ish colored
from Tanganyika are S. polli/eurystomus, and one more but that name escapes me
Parrothead: not real sure, bought it from a lfs I worked at part-time,
he simply referred to it as a gold syn.
Glaive: I have no issue with pointing people to the right places
to find out information, that being said the best place on the web to figure it
out would be planet catfish
emartin: and scotcat.com
why_spyder: All the Synodontis
AmayaOkami: Ok Ima start with a stupid question: What are the main
differences between haps and peacocks?
Parrothead: Thanks Glaive
emartin: My honest opinion there really isn't any. I personally
think they belong in the haps category.
RustyNut: Peacocks are just sort of a special variety of haps
emartin: Yes exactly
AmayaOkami: I’ve seen everyone refers to them at the same time...it’s
always haps and peacocks and they look alike
why_spyder: Ed - How long have you been keeping Hap's?
emartin: From what I heard mbuna just means rock fish, and by that
logic then Placidochromis milomo is a mbuna fish!
Glaive: ditto those above; no real difference that I have heard of
scientifically it's more that peacocks are a subset of haps
AmayaOkami: ahh kk
emartin: Only since 2007 so far
RustyNut: a very colorful subset
AmayaOkami: except the females
Glaive: true Rusty
CrazyFishMama: are the ones I like the acei and the yellow labs mbuna's
CrazyFishMama: ok ty
Glaive: yes those are mbuna
PhishNFilly: Q. If I was going to stock a 75 gallon Ed, what haps
would you recommend?
RustyNut: I want to hear a basic run down on haps and their biotope
and perhaps various breeding strategies
CrazyFishMama: what are the one's Z has that I love so much? Meaning
are they mbuna's or something else
RustyNut: Fish strategies
emartin: In a 75g I would do smaller species like Lethrinops,
Aulonocara, some Protomelas, some Otopharynx, some Copadichromis sp, some
Mchenga sp, some Nyassachromis sp, etc. There's a huge amount of fish that
would work in that size tank
Rich B.: I have a ? but will wait for ed to catch up.
PhishNFilly: awesome, writing this down ty
emartin: I wouldn't put Protomelas spilonotus in there for example,
I've personally had males exceed 12”. Big fish that get along with everybody
ZK1975: the ones with fry? Those are Tanganyikan rock
tchill93x: PhishNFilly...it will be in the transcripts
PhishNFilly: ty chill
ZK1975: Yeah, Phish.. This conversation is recorded :)
emartin: Currently I keep mostly open-water Haplochromines, like
Tyrannochromis macrostoma Mbenjii (aka maculiceps), Lichnochromis acuticeps,
Nyassachromis boadzulu Kanchedeza, Buccochromis rhoadesii, Tyrannochromis
nigriventer Southern, Taeniolethrinops furcicauda “Chiofu Liwani”,
Copadichromis virginalis Gome (firecrest virginalis), etc. Those are some of
the rarer stuff I keep.
emartin: I like the open water stuff better; they are more
interesting with their behaviors. The Taeniolethrinops are a fun fish to keep,
like love to sift sand and will use their mouths like shovels
emartin: I've had my larger Taeniolethrinops go down past their
eyes digging into the sand, they really love it
AmayaOkami: open water? What does that mean?
emartin: well, deep water
AmayaOkami: oh kk
emartin: not along the shore
AmayaOkami: how do the deep water ones handle the tanks?
emartin: very well
emartin: currently my biggest species are in tanks that are 2ft
tall to 30” tall
CrazyFishMama: do you keep them in community tanks or separate
emartin: right now community tanks but I am in the process of
moving them into two 125g
RustyNut: Do you keep breeding groups or pairs, or?
emartin: right now I have a 265g, two 125g, a 120g, four 75g, 60g,
55g, and various smaller tanks
CrazyFishMama: I could live in a 125 gallon with my kids lol
emartin: It depends on the species, I have some fish as solo males,
others I have pairs, others I have breeding groups
RustyNut: How long does maintenance take each week/biweekly?
CrazyFishMama: how do keep a tank that big clean
CrazyFishMama: sort of same question as Rusty
emartin: It varies, about 2-4 hours depending on how many water changes
I am doing
Rich B.: I am looking into getting a group of around 10-12
Protomelas sp. “Spilonotus Tanzania” (Liuli). Is this one that you are
familiar with? Would like some information on tank size, and after
growing them out male to female ratio, and any other info that I would need for
them to be content and breed.
CrazyFishMama: what about the bottom cleaning
emartin: With Protomelas spilonotus “Mara Rocks” the two males I
had did not tolerate each other once they both hit the 10” mark
emartin: despite being in a 7ftx2ftx30” tank, they started fighting
all day every day until I had to sell one
Rich B.: Was this a species only tank?
emartin: they were damaging each other’s mouths pretty badly
emartin: no it was a community tank and they weren’t even the
dominant fish lol
emartin: with spilonotus Tanzania, my understand is that they are
more laid back and the male I have now is pretty laid back
emartin: but then so were my P. spilonotus “Mara Rocks” until they
hit the 10” mark
RustyNut: I had that trouble with Protomelas taeniolatus
why_spyder: Ed - is there a species (or multiple species) that you
hope to get in the future that are a 'must-have' for you?
emartin: so I'd keep an eye on your group, you may just have to
deal with one male unless you can give the multiple males more than enough
females to keep them busy!
Rich B.: lol, alright. I have an empty 125 to start them out
in, would a larger tank be in the future for them?
emartin: Right now I have a few must haves, Taeniochromis
holotaenia (working on getting a wild caught group now actually, :)),
Mylochromis epichorialis, Otopharynx sp. 'auromarginatus goldhead',
Pallidochromis sp. “chicken”, and that's it I think at the moment
emartin: 125g should be perfectly fine, but that could end up being
a species tank depending on how rowdy the males get
emartin: I really, really want to get a hold of that Otopharynx I
mentioned, but it is only located in Mozambique waters at very remote locations
in deep water (so they would have to be decompressed)
Rich B.: That is the way I keep fish is in species only
tanks. Well I do have one show community tank. Great, thanks for
emartin: I talked with Ad Konings about it and he told me not to get
my hopes up that collecting is very rarely ever done in Mozambique
RustyNut: What about other tank mates? Is there anything
either cichlid or non-cichlid that you would keep with your fish?
emartin: You can probably breed other fish in the same tank as the Protomelas;
just keep an eye on aggression though
emartin: my two 10” males were bumping up the glass lids (which is
when I decided one of them had to go)
emartin: when they were fighting
emartin: Rusty, with my fish or with Protomelas 'spilonotus tanzania'?
RustyNut: well both
emartin: in my 265g at the time with my Protomelas I had lots of
other fish in the same tank: Synodontis decorus, Tyrannochromis nigriventer, Lichnochromis
acuticeps, Exochochromis anagenys, etc
emartin: they definitely do get along with other fish
RustyNut: so they are mostly concerned with others of their own kind
emartin: I never bred any Protomelas so I have no idea how they get
when breeding, but the two males I had I was getting worried they'd rip each
other's jaws apart
emartin: yes exactly
Glaive: would you say it is within genus or more on a within
ZK1975: I had a group of the Tanzanians, gorgeous fish, never got
spawning time with them though.
emartin: for non cichlid fish, I keep pleco, Phyllonemus typus, Synodontis
sp, botia histrionica, clown loaches, etc with my fish
emartin: they get along fine
emartin: I wouldn’t put Phyllonemus in with any cichlid that gets 8"
or bigger though, they’d be an expensive snack
emartin: Actually Glaive my sulphurheads (the spilonotus) NEVER
bothered my Protomelas steveni Mlowe wild female in the same tank
emartin: never even tried to breed with her
emartin: so I think it's definitely more a species thing
RustyNut: My spilonotus tried to take all the otopharanz females
emartin: there's a lot of variations in Protomelas, wildly
different melanin patterns (Protomelas sp. 'solo', Protomelas steveni-types,
Protomelas spilonotus, Protomelas kirkii, etc)
emartin: A determined male fish will mate with anything
Glaive: good knowledge to have, so nothing like Julies
emartin: I had a 3” male Placidochromis sp. jalo mate with one of
my wild female Taeniolethrinops furcicauda
ZK1975: my Spilonotus never bothered anyone else or themselves and
they were in with Flavus, Labs, ZRocks, Afra Jalo Reefs..
emartin: the spawn was not fertile but it was the craziest thing I
ever saw since the two species were so different (let alone that the female Taeniolethrinops
was 3x the size of him!)
emartin: they had different melanin (Taeniolethrinops has stripes, Placidochromis
sp jalo has spots), and completely different bodies too
emartin: I mean, there is no doubt in my mind that they knew they
were separate species, especially the Taeniolethrinops wild female
emartin: it wasn’t like Otopharynx spelaeotes confusing itself with
a Stigmatochromis sp. female
RustyNut: maybe she had jungle fever
PhishNFilly: Q. Diet/Food Source What do you feed
RustyNut: Oh yeah and temperatures! What temps do they like?
emartin: For prepared foods: Dainichi Cichlid formulas 1-3mm (Color
Supreme and Ultima Krill), Hikari Massivore for the big Tyrannochromis and Buccochromis
(9mm pellet :)), Ocean Nutrition Formula One and Two flakes and pellets, and
various generic flakes
emartin: for frozen food I feed Glassworms, Spirulina Brine Shrimp
(I prefer SFBB and OmegaSea Brands for the brine shrimp), Krill, Plankton
(pacific krill), freshwater mysis shrimp, black mosquito larvae for fry
emartin: I like the dainichi pellets as they coat them with fresh
vitamins and spirulina and krill uncooked.
emartin: NLS is just as good though
emartin: I just like giving my fish variety
ZK1975: I 2nd the dainichi comment.. I really enjoyed that food.. The
fish did, too.
CrazyFishMama: here is a question where do you get your fish do you order
from the internet?
emartin: with temperatures I keep all my tanks at 79F, but
sometimes I have stubborn wild fish that won’t breed, so I sometimes drop it
over a couple hours to the lower 70s for a few tanks and then raise it back up
to 82F, they almost always spawn within 1-2 weeks after that
emartin: I rarely buy from LFS
CrazyFishMama: well I am in luck there I still don't know what LFS stands
emartin: the ones here in NJ, at least close to me, kind of suck with
the Malawi cichlids. Over here it's mostly new world cichlids and Tanganyikan
ZK1975: Any highly recommended online sellers?
emartin: LFS is local fish store
emartin: I buy frequently from Atlantis Tropical fish since I live
just 2-2.5 hours south of them
emartin: the drive there is awesome; I do mail-order from them
RustyNut: I highly recommend them as well
CrazyFishMama: do they ship? I am in PA on the border of NY I need to
find a place to order from to get what I am really looking for
emartin: also AnubiasDesign, ValleyAquatics, Dykemyster Fish, Daves
Rare Aquarium Fish, etc
CrazyFishMama: sorry you answered while I was typing
ZK1975: Well, for those of us in BFE.. We pretty well have
to rely on high quality online sellers. I've heard good things from Daves
and I have dealt with Rapps and loved that experience.
RustyNut: CFM yes, and you are close
emartin: I haven’t bought from this last guy since 2007 but when I
did it was a good experience, TNT Cichlids
emartin: oh yeah Tangled Up in Cichlids (Jeff Rapps)
emartin: I’ve gotten some fish from him before, awesome guy
emartin: CrazyFishMama, Atlantis is in Gardiner, NY
emartin: very close to Newburgh, New Paltz, Poughkoupsie
emartin: they should be able to send you fish UPS Ground overnight
emartin: I highly recommend visiting though; Peter's (the owner)
facility is great
emartin: http://www.cichlids.net is their website
emartin: it just always works out, getting fish via mail order
emartin: better prices and better variety
emartin: unfortunately I don’t have a local fish store like Dave's
Fish like people in San Antonio have
PhishNFilly: Q. Ed have you ever been on a fishing expedition
with Konings or others?
CrazyFishMama: I was checking out the Jeff guy his fish are some crazy
emartin: Nooo...just "expeditions" here in NJ collecting
sunfish and perch LOL
PhishNFilly: lol ok ty
emartin: I want to go with Konings and Larry Johnson at some point
RustyNut: we all do
ZK1975: CFM, Rapps deals with Americans mostly.
emartin: I’d have to get scuba lessons first, it would be a waste
to go and not be scuba certified first
PhishNFilly: Q. Do you have a website or Gallery where we can
view your beautiful fish?
CrazyFishMama: oh good question Filly
emartin: not organized at all but yeah I have some pics up
emartin: I’ll start by getting a link for a video of my 265g when
it was in its full glory back in 2008
PhishNFilly: thanks ed.
emartin: it’s dangerous to just throw on the gear and give it a
Glaive: definitely Ed, a refresher would be much safer
DogWalker: getting certified is worth it. Always adds another
dimension to any sunny vacation
emartin: and getting a HD waterproof video camera :)
Glaive: heck I would be in the swimming pool out back practicing
with a camera lol
AmayaOkami: I want to see that
emartin: turn your speakers down, the noise is loud
Glaive: there are some nice size beasts in that tank
emartin: If I ever go to Malawi it will be for at least 2 weeks,
but I hear that costs $3-4k, and that doesn't include equipment (including
RustyNut: its only money
RustyNut: Larry certainly isn't wealthy
PhishNFilly: awesome vid
Glaive: I know at one point when airfare was higher I was offered
a 14 day trip for $5000, at the time it was a steal
emartin: Larry gets sponsored I think though
(If you notice this Larry, let us know
and we'll add an update.)
emartin: I have no idea though
emartin: about how he affords it lol
emartin: he loves it though
emartin: I’m surprised there isn’t a fish named after him yet
(Larry, why_spyder and glaive were
joking about naming a fish after Larry a week or so before this chat. ;) )
PhishNFilly: Ed is it true Ad is only doing one more expedition then
he's done? Truth or Rumor?
Glaive: Larry would be the best one to ask Julia
emartin: I don’t know but it sounds like a rumor because I also
heard he was organizing another trip to Tanganyika
emartin: maybe that’s what you heard, one last trip to Tanganyika
and then that’s it
emartin: he’s not that old so I don’t know if he’s really going to
call it quits or not
emartin: Stuart Grant and Dr Trewavas did what they did till they
Glaive: That might be the truth there Ed, the money and interest
is in Malawi and Tanganyika is an older more stable lake, so less is happening
emartin: plus you have pirates, crocodiles, hippos, and some
countries that aren’t exactly American friendly
Glaive: Larry is Canadian ;)
emartin: ad is Dutch but he is also American now (I think)
(At this point in chat we got a
typical CF hijack. Ed was a champ about it and just jumped in CF style with the
rest of us. The chat does eventually resume.)
tbaker1010316: can someone help me
tbaker1010316: I have very high nitrite levels and do not know what to do
emartin: water changes
tbaker1010316: any help would be greatly appreciated
Glaive: add aquarium salt, 1 tablespoon/10 gallons
emartin: if you have fish in there, water changes immediately
tbaker1010316: I just did a 20 percent water change
Glaive: not buffers but table salt without additives
tbaker1010316: I do have fish in there
tbaker1010316: so table salt?
Glaive: rock salt, certain kosher salt and sea salt mixes, any
NaCl salt without additives
tbaker1010316: I have aci freshwater salt
Glaive: read the label, while that additive is unlikely to harm
the fish I prefer not take the changes
tbaker1010316: so will the aci freshwater salt help
Glaive: does the package list ingredients?
emartin: aci? you mean api?
emartin: if it’s api freshwater salt that is fine
tbaker1010316: and how long will it take for me fish to die with high
Glaive: depends on the fish and the amount of nitrite
tbaker1010316: sorry guys but I really appreciate the help I just don’t
want to lose my fish
Glaive: add the salt, mix it in a well rinsed glass full of tank
Glaive: then pour the salt water into the tank
tbaker1010316: the nitrite is 10.0
Glaive: that should protect your fish up to 6.0 ppm nitrites
RustyNut: tbaker, nitrite burns the gills which is permanent, so
acting fast is important
Glaive: ummm never mind, 1 tablespoon/ 5 gallons then
Glaive: incorrect rusty
Glaive: I'll cover that in a bit
tbaker1010316: so how much salt should I put in right now to fix this?
Glaive: do another water change, 50%
tbaker1010316: 1 tablespoon to 5 gallons
AmayaOkami: rusty I learned REAL fast...don’t debate this stuff...just
nod and say yes dear
Glaive: then add 1 tablespoon of salt per 5 gallons of water
RustyNut: AO- you see me debating?
Glaive: then when you do any subsequent water changes add the
amount of salt you remove
sepratbill: Glaive slaps me when I call him dear
emartin: 10ppm nitrite is extremely high; I’m with glaive do
another water change
Glaive: so if you change out 15 gallons of water you will add back
3 tablespoons of salt
Glaive: hopefully you will have caught it in time
emartin: also if you have time test your tap. Do you have town tap
water or well water?
Glaive: baker, 50% water change, do not forget your water
emartin: and any fish missing? a dead fish might be causing the
Glaive: good point Ed
Glaive: for everyone else ammonia physically burns the gills
reducing their ability to exchange anything across the membrane...
Glaive: nitrite uses the chloride transport to enter the blood
where the nitrite bonds to red blood cells in the place of oxygen
Glaive: those red blood cells become useless to the fish until
they are naturally replaced
Glaive: adding salt counters this issue by the chloride in salt
taking back its natural mechanism aka saturate the chloride so the nitrite
cannot enter the blood
tbaker1010316: no dead fish
tbaker1010316: so I really have to do a 50 percent water change to fix
Glaive: you need to do a 50% water change and then add the salt
emartin: to be honest I would do an even bigger water change
emartin: if you still have 10ppm of nitrite
Glaive: what size is the tank?
RustyNut: 75% is not out of the question
tbaker1010316: 55 gallon
Glaive: are your fish on the bottom of the tank “breathing hard”?
Glaive: I would have to agree on 75% being perfectly acceptable
RustyNut: despite me being old and confused earlier.... What
Ammonia or nitrite buildup is called is a poisoning.... and any poisoning
should immediately reduce the toxicity through large and immediate water
changes... the Salt will only help them get through it...
Glaive: the salt will also only help nitrite and not ammonia
emartin: tbaker also test for ammonia
RustyNut: Ammonia is even more serious!
Glaive: so the consensus becomes 75% change on the tank and then 1
tablespoon of salt / 10 gallons
emartin: if there’s no more ammonia, then just removing the nitrite
though water changes should solve the problem
Glaive: yes ammonia is typically the real killer, nitrite just gets
the bad wrap... the toxicity difference is about 10x
RustyNut: There is of course always the use of a detoxifier such as
Glaive: if the only issue is nitrite salt will do the trick
emartin: I'm not convinced prime really detoxifies nitrite, rusty.
On their website they say themselves they aren’t sure
Glaive: tbaker, change out 30 gallons of water pronto, and then
add 6 tablespoons of salt premixed in a glass of tank water
emartin: water changes really is the best remedy for that, id only
use a conditioner for ammonia outbreaks
RustyNut: It definitely detoxifies ammonia
tbaker1010316: I have a small amount of Ammonia as well though
Glaive: baker, deep breath, large water change then add salt
Glaive: watch your fish and test water tomorrow
tbaker1010316: okay, Ammonia is .50
ZK1975: water changes are your friend :)
DoctorV: test daily and perform WCs daily if needed
emartin: Correction (for myself): on their website it says they
aren’t sure it detoxifies nitrates, but they say it does anyway
RustyNut: OK I am off to bed, thanks for the Chat Ed... Nite
(The emergency assistance continues
a little longer with more assurances from all around.)
(Then there is a short bit about
water conditioners, I'm with Ed on this one (Alex).)
emartin: Why can’t people just stick with proven conditions like
amquel, novaqua, seachem prime, ultimate, chloramx, etc...
emartin: people just buy a $50 bucket of ChlorAm-X, it'll last you
years if you just have a few tanks
emartin: plus if you overdose it, it stays active until it’s spent
(Back to some fish talk, the chat
kind of shifts gears here.)
CrazyFishMama: ok off topic for a second can anyone remember what the
Blue one is that will get alone with the acei and the yellow lab I found one
guy who has the first 2 would love to be able to order all from one person
CrazyFishMama: I think his mate is orange
Glaive: Metriaclima/Maylandia zebra?
CrazyFishMama: yes it was a zebra ty sorry looking at some of the places
that were recommended
DoctorV: it indeed does great with labs and acei - I have them all
in my tank
CrazyFishMama: yes I want 3 kinds in my tank
DoctorV: however, it will mate with labs readily and gladly
Glaive: wb Ed
CrazyFishMama: lol that won't hurt my feelings
emartin: sorry my wifi kicked out for a second
CrazyFishMama: the Dave's Rare Aquarium seems to have a great selection
CrazyFishMama: wb Ed
emartin: with daves
emartin: I highly recommend you ask him about air cargo shipping
emartin: it is much cheaper than FedEx
PhishNFilly: Ed, what filtration you use on your tanks?
emartin: like $55 versus $70-90
Glaive: cfm it all comes down to being responsible. if you get
mixes and pass them on to the hobby many of us would consider that rather
CrazyFishMama: ok thanks for the tip he has a really great selection
emartin: with filtration, I used to use canister filters but I hate
Glaive: reputable sources are worth the price difference
emartin: though I wouldn’t mind one of those fluval g series
tbaker1010316: So what should I do if my levels are the same tomorrow
when I check them?
ZK1975: Repeat. :)
emartin: currently I use sumps, Aquaclear power filters (HOBs), and
CrazyFishMama: so Glaive you are saying if they interbreed don't sell
them or give them to the pet store?
Glaive: yes cfm I am saying you should treat it that way
Glaive: Dave is also one of the few that talks to you about what
you want to do and tries to give guidance; he gets big thumbs up from everyone
CrazyFishMama: ok noted thanks for the heads up
PhishNFilly: Ed thanks for that info
CrazyFishMama: I can't find Z's brichardi sure I am spelling it wrong
emartin: You live in Philadelphia I assume, right? (@ phishnfilly)
PhishNFilly: Michigan Ed.....Taylor Michigan
Glaive: if one can, sumps are the pinnacle of filtration
emartin: lol, anyway ask Dave about air cargo
emartin: you’d have to drive to the airport to pick it up
emartin: but it would be same day and much cheaper
PhishNFilly: metro airport is near me ten minutes away
emartin: is that a major airport?
PhishNFilly: yes very
emartin: there you go then!
emartin: Dave could ship from san Antonio airport to that one same
PhishNFilly: I will have to consider that next time I order online, ty
emartin: plus, he can ship 2-3 boxes with no additional cost
emartin: not all mail order people will ship air cargo though
PhishNFilly: ty for that info as well
emartin: for example I doubt Atlantis would unless if it was a
Glaive: or they had enough requests come in that they need to do
an airport trip
emartin: well I think the nearest major airport to them is either
JFK or LaGuardia
emartin: there is a small one near them but I am not sure if that
one does air cargo
Glaive: The next time I am at Neptune I will ask if they would do
air freight, they have 3 major airports within about 40 minutes one within 10
emartin: I know they pick up their wild caught shipments at JFK
emartin: if they live 10minutes from a major airport there really
is no reason why they couldn’t
Glaive: I am certain that if they have not already thought of it
just bringing it up would change their policy
Glaive: brb camera time, xenos are getting jiggy with it
emartin: lol, what species?
(Alex missed this during chat
PhishNFilly: Ed recently a few of us have had mystery illnesses hit our
tanks, have you ever had a major problem you just didn’t know what was wrong?
PhishNFilly: fish loss I mean?
emartin: I’ve had massive fish loss alright, but it was an accident
caused by me
emartin: I have had fish that I had trouble treating and eventually
ZK1975: EMartin, I'm doing a 240.. stacking some decent size
boulders on one end.. leaving about a 3x2 or 2x2 area of sand for some Lethrinops.
Going for an Afra species to hang out in the rocks and a Protomelas species to
hang out in the open water... haven't totally pinned down species
yet but I’m excited
emartin: I have an idea what was wrong with them but wasn’t able to
tchill93x: lol Glaive..hope you get some good shots..Bye
everyone....Need to get to bed...Thanks so much for coming Ed!
ZK1975: Driving everyone here crazy in the meantime cuz I can't
commit on fish lol
PhishNFilly: chill goodnite!
emartin: <a href="http://toadscastle.net/marduk/fish%20dead%20265g/small/PICT0062.jpg"
PhishNFilly: oh brother ed......big big sigh
emartin: that was in 2008 I think, pure negligence on my part. was
doing a water change with a python
emartin: I positioned the python to drain to 50%
emartin: and then I went outside or another part of the house or
something to do work
ZK1975: They sort of looks like my 135 when the power was out for
5 days in the winter.. all the fish huddled up together in groups to die
emartin: when I came back, the suction from the python brought it
down to the very bottom of the tank
emartin: only 3 fish survived
emartin: really really sucked
PhishNFilly: oh good grief......that must have been devastating
Rich B.: for sure
PhishNFilly: how many fish in all?
emartin: careless mistake on my part, now I close the glass lid on
the python hose to secure it at a particular point
emartin: I didn’t count all the fish; it was like 90% of the fish
you saw in my video though. It was I think 20lbs worth
emartin: that was in 2008 I believe
emartin: that was before I got interested in breeding fish
PhishNFilly: how long have you been in this hobby?
ZK1975: oh man.. I feel your pain. at least you didn't
have to fish your dead fish out of near freezing water in the middle of winter
PhishNFilly: Z sigh
the pleco in this pic survived and is huge now, the fish in this pic is a
Mchenga conophoros male, he tried digging to get to deeper water
emartin: if I had just came back a few minutes earlier I could’ve
stopped the siphon :(
CrazyFishMama: omg what is that orange thing next to it
PhishNFilly: that is a very good story, it can also be a learning story,
and I might copy and put on my worst fish disaster story thread.
ZK1975: Ancistrus.. Bristlenose...
PhishNFilly: we all use pythons ....well most not all
emartin: lol ugly suckers aren’t they?
Rich B.: lol
ZK1975: a face only a mother could love!
PhishNFilly: lol Z
Glaive: that is devastating Ed, truly painful, now if I may ask,
as this affects a lot of newer hobbyists. You did not give up the hobby, what
did you do to keep going after such a disaster?
emartin: a couple people on ECC offered me free fish, which was
awesome. I really did almost leave the hobby after that
emartin: if that was my only tank I probably would’ve
emartin: but I still had my 120g
emartin: I don’t remember really, I blocked a lot of that memory
emartin: I hate looking at those pics
CrazyFishMama: I bet
emartin: that one fish was a 9" Exochochromis anagenys male!!
ZK1975: I didn't take pics of my fish disaster.. I didn't want to
emartin: I guess time helped me out
emartin: and getting new fish
PhishNFilly: I don’t think I could have regrouped from such a
loss. No I am positive I could not have moved on.
ZK1975: Yeah almost 2 years and I still haven't got back up to the
stocking levels I used to have
CrazyFishMama: Daves Rare is all the way in Texas and he has everything I
PhishNFilly: I lost five I raised from juveniles Ed and I am still not
right about my Mbuna tank.
emartin: well when I first was keeping Malawi fish I just wanted
emartin: I wasn’t interested in breeding
emartin: now I am
why_spyder: Alright, time to crash for me. Thanks for the chat Ed;
sorry I missed so much of it.
emartin: I actually hate my 265g now; it is a PIA to net fish out
CrazyFishMama: my 35 gallon hex is the worst I come out soaking wet cause
my arms are so little I end up with half my body in there
PhishNFilly: Ed I want to thank you for the time and information you
gave us tonight. It has been a pleasure. I hope you come to the
PhishNFilly: thumbs up
emartin: I enjoyed being here
emartin: time flies, I can't believe its 11pm already!
CrazyFishMama: Thank you very much for coming
PhishNFilly: we had fun is why!
CrazyFishMama: I have so much to learn
Glaive: Ed is was very nice for you come on over and talk cichlids
Glaive: I apologize for the interruption and thank you for jumping
emartin: lol no problem
emartin: it was fun, made an otherwise normal day more interesting
Glaive: well if you like nitrite and cycling excitement ;)
CrazyFishMama: <a href="http://www.safhl.net/davesfish/images/Cynotilapia%20Lion%20Lion's%20Cove.jpg"
CrazyFishMama: that fish is pretty
Glaive: baker, be not bashful it's all in a day here, you are not
first with a problem nor will you be the last
Glaive: hopefully your fish come out okay and you can become as
addicted as the rest of us
ZK1975: Yeah we get noobs in here all the time
:) at least u took the time to come in and ask!
ZK1975: We'll teach u what you need to know
Glaive: we were all noobs/newbs at some point
PhishNFilly: I am still a newb, I will never catch up
tbaker1010316: ok I just finished my water change
ZK1975: Yo Pan.
CrazyFishMama: Glaive did you see my problem earlier
(Alex missed it, caught it a day
tbaker1010316: I did 75 percent and then added 8 tablespoons of salt
PANTERA: Hey Z
ZK1975: My arch nemesis is the photo contest lol how goes it?
CrazyFishMama: my ghost knife are nipping my angel fish and I have no
tank set up to move either out of their tank
PhishNFilly: hello Pan ltns
CrazyFishMama: I have a fish bowl
PANTERA: Hey Philly
ZK1975: PhillyCheese Steak.. mmmm
ZK1975: man now I’m hungry
PANTERA: Eh it goes just stopped in to say hey
ZK1975: The latest 'swarm' split and relocated in the tank.. for a
minute I was concerned those danged fish spawned AGAIN lol
CrazyFishMama: you can always mail me some :grin:
ZK1975: You're persistent, aren't ya! lol
CrazyFishMama: I am in love with your fish
CrazyFishMama: I think the one I found will make me happy I can't seem to
find one closer looking
emartin: here's a pic of my wildcaught Nyassachromis boadzulu Kanchedeza
spawning last april
emartin: holding female is on the top left
PANTERA: nice fish E
Rich B.: sweet
PhishNFilly: oh yes I can see that holding mom....nice pic Ed
PhishNFilly: so brown compared to the male
emartin: actually she’s silver
emartin: she must be in a shadow or something in that pic
PhishNFilly: well it could be my monitor
emartin: this would’ve been an amazing shot if the Aulonocara
stuartgranti Undu male didn’t get in the way <a
PhishNFilly: I can hear Alex yelling calibrate lol
emartin: you can see one of the females better at the top
ZK1975: that Undu male looks like an Usisya Flavescent..
emartin: they’re all of the same regional area, so-called “steveni”
ZK1975: the fins are blue, not black.. Looks like about the
emartin: Usisya, Undu, Wikihi, Hai Reef, Chiwindi, etc
emartin: yeah pretty much
ZK1975: I used to have a trio of Usisya.. Striking fish.
PhishNFilly: great pic
ZK1975: wouldn't mind having some Lemon Jakes
tbaker1010316: got a question for someone out there how can u best tell
when ur fish are stressed and happy
PANTERA: off to bed for me 2 hour commute in the cover of darkness
in the morning lol night everyone
tbaker1010316: I’m a newb sorry
PhishNFilly: goodnite Pan
emartin: I’m currently trying to breed this species
PhishNFilly: awesome fish
Glaive: wow those little guys have some pop
Rich B.: beautiful
PhishNFilly: Ed how can I say this without sounding silly.....you
say you’re trying to breed them.....well what can you do to help it along?
PhishNFilly: temp/etc etc
emartin: well right now the pair I have
emartin: is in a 20g temporary tank
emartin: they’re going to get a 55g or 75g to use for breeding
PhishNFilly: ok I do see, do they prefer a certain substrate?
emartin: with diet, I like glassworms
emartin: never use gravel with cichlids, it is honestly the worst
emartin: they love to sift sand\
PhishNFilly: I switched over to sand, I love it
emartin: and Utaka species (all Copadichromis, Nyassachromis, Mchenga,
etc) make bowers
ZK1975: I'm going to try a Lethrinops species in the 240.. I
emartin: Atlantis has some in stock I think now
emartin: awesome fish
emartin: this is one of my wild T. furcicauda females
emartin: <a href="http://www.toadscastle.net/marduk/new%20fish%209-6-2008/small/PICT0006.jpg"
emartin: I switched to sand in that tank surely; they were trying
to sift through the crushed coral
emartin: that pic was taken in 2008 I believe
PhishNFilly: very nice colors
emartin: this is a male NOT in nuptial dress (not my pic) http://akvariesiden.akvariefisk.dk/storage/artikel/AC5025E0-B0B6-040D-BB99A4CBDC2AC7C5.jpg
emartin: they get about 12" long
CrazyFishMama: Ed where is this one located? http://www.dykemyster.com/contact.htm
Rich B.: nice
emartin: you mean what state? South Carolina
PhishNFilly: Ed you mentioned they made bowers, can you please tell me
what that is?
emartin: here's a pic off of google of a sand bower <a
Rich B.: still breed in bare bottom tanks?
PhishNFilly: Oh my gosh yes I do see now, like a crater
emartin: it depends on the species
emartin: a lot of males in some species like to work up their
testosterone building those castles
emartin: some will still breed in gravel tanks
emartin: it depends
emartin: I don’t think that Cyathopharynx will breed in a bare
bottom tank though
Rich B.: C. trewavasae?
emartin: the Tanganyikan feather fins
ZK1975: Would need lots of sand for all that
emartin: C. trewavasae should, but why not have sand? it’s great
ZK1975: at some point they'll hit glass bottom :)
emartin: easy to clean
Glaive: a big sand fan here
Rich B.: with lots of tanks to clean bare bottom are fast
Rich B.: ;)
PhishNFilly: sand gives a fish tank a classy look
PhishNFilly: it turns it from a VW into a Lexus
Rich B.: maybe just too lazy... more work. lol
Glaive: well Rich one can also design a tank with a nice light bio
load and just avoid too much cleaning
Glaive: my bio load rather light so my water change schedule is
Rich B.: sure, nothing wrong with that
Glaive: if I were running a fish room I would have to switch to an
auto system though
PhishNFilly: I do water changes twice a week, one fish, ten fish I
would do it twice a week.
Glaive: of course if I were keeping fish that liked mud I would
probably attempt to figure that one out lol
emartin: like Gnathochromis permaxillaris?
emartin: if I am not mistaken that fish makes tunnels in mud when
emartin: I don’t know how people manage to breed that one
PhishNFilly: going to do a search of that one.
CrazyFishMama: East Coast time here, have to get up in the morning have a
great evening everyone
Glaive: I would try, it was more of a point I guess
Glaive: I do sand right now because my Tangs like it
emartin: I should probably get going to, 11:35pm here
PhishNFilly: look at the lower lip on that fish!
Rich B.: thanks again Ed.
Glaive: there's tonight's happy couple
PhishNFilly: ((((( ED )))))) thanks very much for sharing with us.
Glaive: just a quick crop and resize, will process the batch later
PhishNFilly: A +
Rich B.: look happy
sepratbill: doh! Just got back
sepratbill: thanks Ed!
sepratbill: looking forward to reading the log
emartin: my pleasure, it was fun being here
emartin: I'll see you all later
Glaive: Ed, once again thanks for the chat, for jumping in and
assisting baker and taking it all in stride
Glaive: it was a lot of fun
Glaive: you're welcome anytime
PhishNFilly: wow that was great.
Glaive: and that folks is the idea of a chat night
PhishNFilly: it went super
Glaive: sometimes it's open discussion and sometimes it's more of
Glaive: it just depends on the person
PhishNFilly: it was a bit of all Alex
Let me just thank Ed for joining in
and leading everyone in a very enjoyable return of chat night. Ed it was great
fun, don’t be a stranger. For those of you who missed the chat and are reading
this, say thanks to tchill for her editing assistance. And of course last but
not least to one Why_spyder for organizing the chat.