space Cichlids: A Knowledge Base Glossary    Contact Us

Search  
   
Browse by Category
Cichlids: A Knowledge Base .: Chat Logs .: 09/02/15 Advanced Equipment - aka Sumps with RustyNut and glaive

09/02/15 Advanced Equipment - aka Sumps with RustyNut and glaive

RustyNut: What is a sump? A sump is a reservoir that increases the total volume of your aquarium. In its simplest form it is a tank, a pump, with both intake and return lines.

Glaive:

RustyNut: It also serves the additional purpose of hiding unsightly equipment and can be used as a temporary housing for a fish.

RustyNut: Does anyone have any questions so far?

Glaive: Does anyone have any questions regarding what has been shared so far or the illustration?

hefe: fish could go in the first chamber?

Glaive: Yes they can Hefe

hefe: and second?

RustyNut: Yes they could

RustyNut: Youíd separate from the pump area

Jcushing: if you want to include a ďrefugiumĒ to house fish, I would try to have it separated from other components

RustyNut: Weíll cover that more later

RustyNut: As it stands a basic sump can be used to house an injured fish and not have it have to deal with a change in water parameters

RustyNut: Same water and same temp but no other fish to harm it while it recovers

RustyNut: Now to understand how a sump works you have to understand how a standpipe works

Glaive: On that note people should not use a sump as a quarantine for new fish.

RustyNut: Correct

Jeff F.: What?

Glaive: Yes Jeff

RustyNut: Question?

Jeff F.: Why did you refer to it in a ďhospitalĒ like reference

Jcushing: I think he meant mostly for injured fish, not diseased fish

StructureGuy: Not a hospital. a recovery tank.

Jcushing: diseased fish should be treated in a separate tank that has a separate water volume

RustyNut: Yes exactly

RustyNut: Injured not diseased fish

Jeff F.: My bad, my hospital is my separation tank at times

geotlyrae: How bout a holding cichlid?

Glaive: Certainly geo

RustyNut: Yes it works for that, but you might not want her to spit in the sump.....

geotlyrae: got it..

RustyNut: it is difficult to remove the fry from most sumps

Ironmahn: I have a question....

Glaive: Ask away

Ironmahn: What is the noise level compared to a canister filter?

RustyNut: A sump is louder

Jcushing: canisters are about as quiet as you can get...

Glaive: How much louder depends on the pump and the plumbing

Jcushing: a sump is as quiet as you make it but it will always be louder

RustyNut: There is noticeable sound of moving water

ZK1975: standpipes make a hell of a difference in noise levels, in my opinion.

StructureGuy: Arenít the drilled tanks with a built in overflow quieter than the add-ons?

Ironmahn: Thanks.

RustyNut: Yes Kevin

ZK1975: Not necessarily

Jcushing: the noise from standpipes is mostly from the air mixing with the water in the pipe...

RustyNut: The noise level has to do with many different parts of the system

ZK1975: IME my add-on was quieter, but I had Dursus in my internal overflows.. tuned up and they were quiet as a whisper

StructureGuy: Dursus?

geotlyrae: louder than an Emperor 400?

why_spyder: Durso Standpipes

Jcushing: noise levels depend on the type of pump, the amount of splashing onto the media, and how quiet the overflow is....

RustyNut: Let me say that a sump is not ďloudĒ

Glaive: http://www.dursostandpipes.com/?page_id=6

Jcushing: Durso is one method of quieting a standpipe, there are others like the Hofer Gurgle Buster

RustyNut: There are many style of standpipes designed to reduce noise levels and some of the newest designs are as silent as most HOBS

ZK1975: Iíve only used Durso.. I loved Ďem

Ironmahn: Rusty - on that note... So is the sound comparable to the sound of an aquarium that is low on water running a hang on the back filter?

Glaive: There are three sources of noise, air mixing with the water in the plumbing, water noise in the way of splashing and vibration from the pump

Ironmahn: i.e. the splashing noise it makes.

RustyNut: IM, I would say so IF the design is correct

StructureGuy: Gotta be quieter than some of my sponge filters

Jcushing: yes...

RustyNut: quite honestly I think my returns makes the most splashing noises

Ironmahn: Thatís not so bad then... sometimes soothing.

Glaive: Understand this much, you can make a sump very quiet. Somewhere in between a canister and a hob.

RustyNut: they sound like a trickling stream

RustyNut: but I have them set to ripple the surface quite a bit

Ironmahn: Nice

GoodMike: Sumps can be noisy though

Jcushing: right, thatís basically where mine is now, quieter than my Marineland HOBís but louder than my cascade canister

GoodMike: you will always have some form of whooshing

RustyNut: you could make them quieter by placing them lower

GoodMike: and if you try and push too much water through them, they are loud :p

StructureGuy: Does anyone ever hook up multiple tanks to a single big sump?

GoodMike: I have Structure

RustyNut: Yes Structure.... itís popular

Jcushing: a lot of fish stores are set up like that

Glaive: I would consider it for a rack of tang dwarf tanks Kevin

GoodMike: if you have fish that need the same water requirement for breeding, a breeding rack with a common sump works well. you can mess with the water for all of them at the same time, makes water changes easy, and gives you a much larger volume

StructureGuy: No concerns of one disease shared by all?

GoodMike: quarantine them first ;)

Glaive: That is a very big concern Kevin, in such an instance quarantine time is a must

RustyNut: OK moving on

RustyNut: A bio tower is a container used to hold your bio media. Bio media can be almost anything from crushed lava rocks, to plastic army men or even the plastic pot scrubbers!

RustyNut: Bioballs are a media designed specifically for wet/dry applications and they offer very good performance with very little maintenance.

RustyNut: Many types of plastics are slippery and do not allow the beneficial bacteria to gain good footing on the media and as a result can take much longer to colonize that more porous medias.

RustyNut: However more porous media has a tendency to clogs more easily and which is why biological medias intended for submerged usage such as sintered glass are not a good choice.

RustyNut: If I may move back to the overflows....

Jeff F.: Is this not where hydro flowed systems gain advantage with sponge filters?

RustyNut:

RustyNut: There are a few types

RustyNut: In the illustration, the top view (and side view) shows a HOB style overflow

Jcushing: here are pics of mine installed in a tank....

Jcushing:

RustyNut: The bottom (and side) view show a built in reef ready system

Jcushing:

RustyNut: Thanks J

Glaive:

RustyNut: Now in the Bio tower illustration

RustyNut: You can see how the media is layered inside the tower

Jeff F.: What about the people building systems of many tanks

RustyNut: At the top would be a spray bar or a drip plate to disperse the water

RustyNut: Yes Jeff?

Jcushing: hereĎs my spray bar

Jeff F.: For contamination Rusty?

Glaive: modified image

Jcushing:

Jcushing: it certainly could be done nicer, but it is effective

GoodMike: if you want to use a central system, make sure you donít put anything in it that hasnít been through a thorough quarantine process...

Jcushing:

Spary bar in action spray bar in action

GoodMike: that will keep disease/contamination down. donít use any nets, or equip from any other tank

GoodMike: and it never hurts to run a UV on the system too *See End for UV side notes

RustyNut: When we put the sump and the biotower together we have a wet/dry filter

RustyNut:

Jeff F.: Rusty, you keep posting this but it means nothing to those of us who are not familiar with these systems. Any clarity?

Jcushing: clarity in what

Jeff F.: This diagram would work if it said which things were which in the diagram and what they were doing Just my opinion.

Jcushing: ok, so basically to hopefully cover Jeffís question I'll explain the simplified mechanics of a wet dry

Jcushing: water in the tank spills into, or is siphoned off into the standpipe, which drains the water down to the sump

Jcushing: there it is sprayed onto the bio tower

Jcushing: mechanical is first, going from coarse to fine, then onto the bio media

RustyNut: OK Jeff

RustyNut: Hold on J

RustyNut: Jeff you mean you donít understand the flow of the system?

StructureGuy: Jeff. The sump is below the tank. Water is pumped from the sump into the tank. The water level in the tank is always the same as the level of the overflow. The water goes back into the sump by gravity.

RustyNut: OK letís try this

RustyNut: Turn off the pumps

RustyNut: Now you have an aquarium full of water to the height of the standpipe

RustyNut: and you have a sump full of water as well

ZK1975: provided the return pipe isnít below standpipe level :P

RustyNut: Zk that makes no sense

Jcushing: he means a siphon will start with the pump off

RustyNut: OK

Jcushing: if its low enough

Jcushing: assuming it wont....

RustyNut: OK we start the pump

RustyNut: and water from the sump is pump up into the aquarium above

RustyNut: raising the level of the water in the aquarium above the standpipe height

RustyNut: This causing the excess water to then drain down the standpipe back into the sump

RustyNut: with a forever repeating cycle

RustyNut: at least until the power goes off :)

RustyNut: Does that answer your confusion Jeff?

ZK1975: or something blocks the standpipe hole :)

Jcushing: eventually it forms a balance, the flow from the pump matches the flow in the standpipe and the water level of the tank and sump become stable

Glaive:

RustyNut: Nice work Glaive

RustyNut: does everyone now have the basic operation down?

Jeff F.: Just trying to help people like me who wonít ask questions Rusty, or who havenít dealt with sumps. Now keep teaching brotha!

StructureGuy: Didnít one of those overflows work as a siphon? If so, the how do you balance inflow with outflow?

Ironmahn: So is the standpipe height... If someone was using the HOB style that would be the containers height?

Jcushing: ok I can touch on the HOB style...

RustyNut: StructureGuy, no the is no siphon in a drilled tank with internal overflow

RustyNut: But in a HOB overflow there IS a siphon

geotlyrae: stupid question.. standpipe. please explain.

StructureGuy: Oh I thought one of the HOB had a siphon.

RustyNut: Simple standpipe works like this

RustyNut: Think of your bathtub

RustyNut: if you placed a pipe in the drain that stood to the 18Ē high the water would get 18Ē deep before flowing into the pipe....

RustyNut: in an aquarium the standpipe is the height of your tank rim

ZK1975: yeah, HOBís have a siphon.. why else the flushing sound when water is drained below intake :)

RustyNut: so the water cannot get higher than the that

Jcushing: in a HOB overflow, the standpipe is run externally, the siphon is only there to get the water to it. it siphons the water from the tank to a separate chamber. the top of the stand pipe in the overflow is still the lowest point the water will drain down to.

StructureGuy: I think it would be cool if Alex made an mpeg of this for the site.

Glaive: I canít create an animated gif or movie quickly enough for this chat, but I think it would be a good idea in the long run

Jcushing:

StructureGuy: Oh, I got it. (The siphon thing.)

Jcushing: from that picture you can see the U tube provides the siphon from the tank to the external box...

Ironmahn: Jcushing - So are you saying that you want the top of the overflow collecting container just level with the underside of the rim of the aquarium?

Jcushing: it maintains the water level between the aquarium and the HOB portion

Jcushing: the water will only drain down to a certain point... once the water level drops enough, itís lower than the height of the slots in the internal box

Jcushing: no more water can siphon, the siphon isnít broken at this point, it simply stops, as soon as the water level goes up in the aquarium, the siphon continues

Jcushing: (as long as the drain pipe is higher than the bottom of the U tube in the external box)

Jcushing: does that make sense to everyone?

Jcushing: the only thing that will ďbreakĒ the siphon is if air gets in the U tube

ZK1975: U tube must have water level above U tube openings in both the inside and outside boxes or else!

ZK1975: anyone here have a better way of getting water in the U tube without running an airline in and sucking out the air and replacing it with water from the overflows?

RustyNut: ZK, itís clearer to say that the U-tube ends must both be well submerged to prevent loss of siphon

Jcushing: the U tube ends must be almost at the bottom of both chambers, with the stand pipe height being higher than that

Jeff F.: The picture provided shows an EMPTY tube!

Jcushing: I suck the air out with airline tubing

Jcushing: to get the siphon going

ZK1975: me too..

RustyNut: You can drill a small hole and glue a one way air valve in as well

ZK1975: a check valve sufficient?

Jcushing: here 's a video of mine running Jeff http://s527.photobucket.com/albums/cc352/jcushingDC2/110/sump/?action=view&current=sump.flv

RustyNut: I have seen it used

Jcushing: maybe that will clear things up

ZK1975: or would that require more force to open the valve than is caused by water going in tube?

Jcushing: ok so are we all good with how water gets from tank into the sump?

RustyNut: I think at least most of them are

Jcushing: Ok, Iíll take that as a yes... . so now the water is draining into the sump, it goes down over the bio media, and enters the main sump

Jcushing: once it enters the sump it flows to the pump area and for most that is that

Jcushing: but you can set up separate chambers in the sump to house different things

Jcushing: the pump should be separated from the rest of the sump so that if the overflow were to clog the pump couldnít pump the entire contents of the sump into the tank

Jcushing: (often causing a flood)

Jcushing: this can be accomplished 2 ways, raise the pump intake to the lowest point you want the level of the sump to drop

Jcushing: or chamber off one section of the sump, so that if the water level drops too low, itís cut off

Jeff F.: Iím not happy with the deli-cat way of showing it. not good for beginners just trying to figure stuff out.

RustyNut:

Jcushing:

Jcushing: what do you not understand Jeff..

GoodMike: Jeff, http://www.melevsreef.com/what_sump.html thatís for reef, same basic application for freshwater. I know what you mean about not understanding, hope that helps

GoodMike: the pic that is

Jeff F.: Like I said, Just trying to clarify for others in the chat since this is our best turnout yet!

Jcushing: if you want to setup a refugium itís a good idea to keep the fish out of the pump section with a screen somehow

RustyNut: OK late note

RustyNut: Power failure safety

RustyNut: In order to know you do not have too much water in your sump the pump should be turned off when you fill it. IF you fill the tank while running the lines and overflow and such will hold enough water that you could possibly overspill the sump when the power fails...

RustyNut: remember the excess water that was pumped up into the tank must settle back down into the sump and be able to fit within its volume.

Jcushing: also like it was touched on earlier if the pump fails/looses power, the return plumbing can act like a siphon... drilling a few small holes just below the water level will break the siphon is the water level drops

ZK1975: a mock power failure is a good idea :)

RustyNut: This is why a sump size of at least 20% the volume of the tank should always be used

Jcushing: yes unplug the pump, make sure the sump can handle the extra water volume, then block the overflow/standpipe, and make sure the pump runs dry before the top of the tank overflows

Jcushing: I like to mark the absolute highest water height in the sump

geotlyrae: What if you not home??

RustyNut: It just flows back into the sump to the height you filled it to with the power off

ZK1975: if youíre not home and you didnít pre-check to make sure sump levels were fine... u risk a flood of excess water :)

Jcushing: you test first GEO, so that way you know itís safe if it does happen

Jcushing: like I said, mark the highest level the sump can have, and donít go over that

Jcushing: the water level in the tank will not drop, only the height in the sump

ZK1975: a routine check also of siphon break holes, or potential overflow pipe blockages is also a good idea

RustyNut: ZK, with the pump well that shouldnít be a problem ever

Jcushing: so questions?

hefe: cool, so if these are set up correctly thereís no way it could drain your whole tank all over the floor?

RustyNut: correct

hefe: at what size tank does it make sense to use a sump vs. canister etc?

RustyNut: They are just as safe as any canister or HOB, but require more knowledge to operate

ZK1975: yeah if you do everything properly and things work as they should.. you wonít flood anything.

hefe: I know thereís more bio filtration in a sump potentially anyway

RustyNut: I would say 6ft tanks and larger will benefit more from the w/d sump than the cost of canister(s)

Jcushing: hefe to touch on safety, thatís where properly sizing the sump comes in

RustyNut: There is also a HUGE oxygenation benefit

ZK1975: nothings 100%, though. Canít say a sump will NEVER overflow

RustyNut: Canít say a canister will never leak

Jcushing: sure, but its no more likely then a seal on a canister going

ZK1975: Right

ZK1975: itís rare, but wouldnít want someone thinking itís fool proof

RustyNut: true enough

geotlyrae: Iím looking at a 6ft corner flow.. So I believe a sump is the only way to go..

Jcushing: it comes down to cost IMHO

RustyNut: I cause more floods by doing water changes

Ironmahn: What is a rough estimate of the initial cost of setting a sump?

RustyNut: my sumps have never cause a single flood for me

ZK1975: Sump, pump, tubing. clamps

Jcushing: if it takes multiple large canisters to filter the tank a sump / wet dry might be the best bet

RustyNut: IM, Depends on how DIY your are

hefe: sumps trickle the water over media thatís not fully submerged and it works, so how can a canister have good bio filtration if thereís so much less oxygen?

Jcushing: depends greatly on the size of the tank IM

Glaive: The largest cost is typically the pump unless you pay for a commercially produced sump

ZK1975: yeah, u can do premanufactured sumps with fancy biocages and such..

Jcushing: large tanks need large pumps = more expensive

ZK1975: the more detailed, the more youíll spend.. Iíve seen them as high as $300 for a sump

Glaive: is your 6 foot tank a 125 gallon?

geotlyrae: How big a sump for 120 gal?? 150 or over?

RustyNut: hefe, the W/d just has supercharged bacteria

Jcushing: my sump cost me roughly 150 for a 5ft tank

Jcushing: which is pretty much what I paid for a single canister

RustyNut: 20% of 120 = 24g

Glaive: for a 120 or a 150 I would consider a 30 gallon sump

RustyNut: 20% 150g = 30g sump

Glaive: if you have the space you can get very creative with hat your sump is mode of I have known people who used rubber maid containers, with those one should consider framing them in

RustyNut: 20% of 200g = 40g

Seedy: Considering a new Eheim will set you back $250-$450....

Glaive: if you are willing to modify an older used tank you can really reduce costs

Jcushing: yeah totes arenít meant to hold water so they can tend to bow with the weight of water

Jcushing: the most effective solution to me is a used tank

Glaive: it also helps to have a tank with built in over flows when one is dealing with a larger tank

AulonocaraFreak: unless life Alex said, you can frame it in

Jeff F.: Tanks are SO cheap nowadays!

Glaive: It really comes down to how much DIY you are comfortable doing

Seedy: What about commercial overflow/lifters?

Jcushing: 20 - 40 gal tanks can be had for the cost of a new Sterility tote

RustyNut: Both my sumps with pumps and biomedia and all accessories cost me about $350 COMBINED

Seedy: The ones that donít require drilling

AulonocaraFreak: but if your options are buying a tub or using an old tank thatís lying around, Iíd definitely use the old tank

Ironmahn: So now the pump, how do you determine what you need?

AulonocaraFreak: the old tank would definitely be easier to convert

Glaive: I myself am willing to make my own internal overflows if I were not able to find an inexpensive tank with prebuilts

RustyNut: Pumps are determined by your overflow

RustyNut: All overflows have a maximum flow rating

Ironmahn: Meaning?

AulonocaraFreak: you have 4 square sides verse a tote that doesnít have any straight sides

Glaive: how much water the overflows can handle moving

RustyNut: so if you have a 600gph overflow you want LESS than a 600gph pump flow

AulonocaraFreak: the bigger the tank, the more overflow you need

RustyNut: AF, Not true really

AulonocaraFreak: really?

Ironmahn: How do you know the overflow rating?

RustyNut: Ideal GPH for W/D systems is between 500-and 700gph

Glaive: in the case of a 120-150 gallon tank I would want dual over flows with 1 inch pipe stands

Jcushing: for an overflow, it should be listed

Jcushing: typically, 1Ē PVC is 600gph

RustyNut: You can push more water through and get more capacity, but above 700gph your get diminishing returns

AulonocaraFreak: I see what you mean

Jcushing: itís always better to have a margin of safety

AulonocaraFreak: that definitely makes sense

Jcushing: you can buy too much pump and turn it down

AulonocaraFreak: so would you put in 2 overflows and 2 returns also? or do you just have 1 return and double your pump size?

Jcushing: bypass some of the water from the pump back into the sump

Glaive:

Jcushing sump 2

Glaive: this is an illustration

Glaive: Depends on what you want to do

Jcushing: for a 6 ft tank thatís not drilled, dual 600 gph overflows would be adequate

Glaive: I would consider two smaller pumps if the energy usage was better

Glaive: this way if you did have a pump failure you would still have filtration

AulonocaraFreak: but also if you only have 1 pump, and that pump fails, wouldnít you like to have a back up solution?

Jcushing: yes

Jcushing: 2 pumps, one outlet on each side of the tank would be nice

AulonocaraFreak: so where do you put your overflows in that case then?

AulonocaraFreak: do you put them both in the middle?

AulonocaraFreak: or do you center them on each side of the tank?

Glaive: you could do dual wide with two stand pipes

AulonocaraFreak: I see

Glaive: let me see what images I can pull up of dual systems

AulonocaraFreak: sounds good

AulonocaraFreak: itís always easier to see it on paper

AulonocaraFreak: or screen in this case

Jcushing: more questions?

AulonocaraFreak: so the rule of thumb is to have a sump 20% the size of your tank?

AulonocaraFreak: whatís the rule of thumb for how much gph you have for flow?

Jcushing: you typically want 5-10x water turnover per hour

Glaive: http://www.saltwatertogo.com/truvu-aquariums/50-gallon-tru-vu-aquarium-model-50-bow-front-aquasystem-36x18x20-.html

Glaive: okay that tank has a built in overflow

AulonocaraFreak: alright, for example, on a 120 gallon tank you want a minimum of 600 gph flow

Glaive: it is a centered one

Jcushing: if you have other filters or power heads you can adjust accordingly

Glaive: it should have dual returns one in each upper back corner

geotlyrae: how many gph would a 30gl usually do?

Glaive: itís all in how fast you can drain the water

Glaive: you could conceivably run 1200gph through a 30 gallon as long as you had the overflows that could handle it

Glaive: I would likely stick with 900 gph myself

Glaive: 900gph is 15 gpm, which works out to 1 gallon every four seconds

Jeff F.: 900?

geotlyrae: Iím doing 800 with my 2 emperors on my 46gl bow

Glaive: as long as your overflows can handle it and you make sure your water levels are right you would be fine

Glaive: one 20 gallon wet dry sump at 400gph would destroy your emperors

Glaive: no comparison

Glaive: yes Jeff?

geotlyrae: ok... got the message..

Jcushing: donít forget geo, that when speaking with sumps, they work in actual GPH where canisters and HOBís are listed a lot higher than actual

Glaive: elaborate on your questions

RustyNut: geo, also the higher O2 content in the biotower would also beat any HOB for surface area

Glaive: in a sump you are also getting maximum oxygenation in the media and you are getting 100% contact or close to

geotlyrae: so 900 should be ok..

hefe: good night everyone. thanks for running this. very informative

AulonocaraFreak: i.e., the Fluval FX5 is rated at 925 gph, but only really does somewhere around 600

Jeff F.: Isnít double filtration the norm?

Jcushing: sure

Glaive: the norm when dealing with manufactured filters in 8-10x tank volume on tanks 75 and under

Glaive: once you get bigger 6x is fine

geotlyrae: I looked at one at Big Alís but was not sure of the brand.. Perhaps their own..

AulonocaraFreak: so if I ever find one, I have an fx5 and need a second suggestion for a 125 or 180

Glaive: I would be perfectly comfortable running 600 gph on a 125 if it was a wet/dry sump

Jcushing: I have a 350gph canister and about 550gph going through the sump in a 110 gal

AulonocaraFreak: alright, so I might want a smaller wet dry also?

AulonocaraFreak: thatís what I was kind of wondering as well Alex...

geotlyrae: wasnít that a minimum??

AulonocaraFreak: wasnít what a minimum?

Glaive: I would just run a sump myself maybe drop a biowheel in the bio tower in case of pump failure, that would give you seeded media to start a hob immediately

Jeff F.: Typo yes...I run a cascade 1500 and an emperor 400 on a 70g. Iím all into filtration.

geotlyrae: 600 gph for a 120gl

Glaive: that would be fine geo

AulonocaraFreak: yes, that would be a minimum

Glaive: if it was a sump

AulonocaraFreak: but that also depends on how heavily you stock your tank

AulonocaraFreak: and itís not a bad thing to have a little extra filtration

RustyNut: it also depends on the volume of your biotower

AulonocaraFreak: I might end up with the FX5 and a 600 gph sump

Glaive: Filtration is kind of complicated, the reason you can get by with lower flows on wet dry sumps is because all of the water that passes through gets in contact with the media

Jcushing: I had a cascade 1500 with a penguin 330 and 350. replaced the 2 HOBís with the sump

Glaive: If that is your line of thought AF I would just consider 900gph+ of sump

Jcushing: you could upgrade a 600gph sump to a 900-1200 gph sump for very little

AulonocaraFreak: I had a Penguin 350 that got replaced with a Rena xp2 :)

RustyNut: the bacteria have access to so much more O2 it allows them to detoxify at maximum capacity

Glaive: another usage I think we missed on the sump was a place to store seeded sponge filters

Jeff F.: I stock my cascade properly and itís very effective

RustyNut: ?in a sump........

Jeff F.: very

RustyNut: True Glaive

Glaive: sure why not Mr. Nut, they are out of sight and even sitting in a center chamber would contain enough bacteria to jump start a fry or hospital tank

RustyNut: itís a great place to keep your sponge filters for emergencies

Glaive: ahh missed where your Q was directed

Glaive: or a few extra biowheels

RustyNut: I think concludes our little sump chat

*UV Side Discussion

AulonocaraFreak: how do you guys feel about UV Sterilizers?

Glaive: I do not like them

Glaive: I consider them a waste of money

RustyNut: part time use only

Pam Chin: I donít think you want a UV system on your fish tanks.

why_spyder: UV would kill of good and bad bacteria, right?

GoodMike: Pam, they are awesome

RustyNut: Mike, UV has its uses but should not be used constantly

Pam Chin: Mike, I think you are wrong, if you have a wholesale house and you are moving fish in and out that is one thing, but if you have a UV system on bank of tanks you are asking for trouble your fish are not going to live in anyone elseís tanks.

GoodMike: I didnít say to run it constantly ;)

RustyNut: What Pam means, is that an untested immune system is worthless

GoodMike: in a wholesale/retail situation it helps keep spread from tanks. In a home situation, if you do have an outbreak of something, it helps reduce the damage to turn it on







How helpful was this article to you?


.: Powered by Lore
© 2009 Cichlidforums.com