best mixture for a community tank

[Gregory]

I've found this an excellent forum over my past several weeks of browsing and find you all a very reliable resource. I am planning a 72 g cichlid tank with sump filter. I plan on having a lot of lace rock with a sand substrate, perhaps some gravel terraced on the back for some Val. Probably place some Anubia sp on the rocks, without overdoing it. My water is pH 8.0 with moderate hardness so Africans sound like a good match. I that after "successful" fishless cycling to a moderately high ammonia load I should be able to add a fair number of fish at one time to avoid conflicts. From what I've read, a peaceful community tank is more likely if you have a diversity of shapes, and colors, as aggressiveness is more likely directed towards same or similar species (exceptions abound, I'm sure). Nevertheless, the amazing variety of these beautiful fish overwhelms me. What are some recommendations for the number and types of cichlids for a community tank of this size? Could Clown Loachs work in this setting instead of, or in addition to, Synodonits for bottom feeders?

[fOx]

Whoa Nelly!!! May I be the first to welcome you this hobby! Now that has been said, let's move on. Do not under any circumstance (at least until you get your bearings in this hobby) mix species from different lakes/continents... ie: keep the malawis with the malawis and the South Americans with outher South Americans... unless you want an instant blood bath! These species don't mix naturally and what you will find is competition for the same space/nooks/food and it will not go over well.

Moving along, you need to know (and everybody in this forum will support this) that cichlids are not community fish! They will chase, bite, and fight amongst one another. They are aggressive fish. The goal of any keeper is to minimize this aggression. This is done by choosing more docile species of fish. I know lake malawi, so I will start there. Labidocromis, and just anything known as a peacock will make a good "community fish". Steer clear of the Nimbocromis, Lombardoi, kennyis and anything else labled Mbuna ( I have a whole wack of all these species so no flack please, I'm trying to help the newcomer) But, what ever you do, try (I know that this hard when buying small fish) to get two or three females for every one male that you plan to keep. As they get older all males start to think about breeding, this is when the real problems start. If there are more males than females, you have a Royal Rumble! (Yes, its that simple, these are horny fish).
:lol:

Feed them a little bit many times during the day, this will help to curb aggression by making sure they are never hungry. Also get as many as you can together as babies, I find when they grow up together they are much more tolerant of one another as adults. But, that being said, don't overdo it. A 75 gallon tank with 20 babies will look empty... for about 8 months, then all of the fish will be between 3 and 6 inches in length. This is a common trap to fall into. People over buy to make sure their tanks look full, keep in mind the full grown size of these fish... my bumblebee is about 6.5 inches and he's less than a year old.

As for the rest, water changes are neccessary and good filtration will help to keep the water free of any toxic stuff. You need this, because when the water starts to get dirty it stresses the fish out = aggression.

This is a labour of love, you learn as you go. We have all killed a few fish in our time, but you have to learn from it and move on. Good luck... and I'm sure Gypsy will fill you in on the Tangs (I only have a Fronty, so I'm not the one to ask about that lake).

fOx

[jonah]

Who said anything about mixing SA and African cichlids? :?

Your tank and water sound fine for Africans. Clown loaches will probably be okay too. I keep some in my own 125g with various African species from all 3 of the major lakes. Make sure the loaches are bigger than the cichlids.

For a first tank I'd stick to cichlids from Lake Malawi. If you want semi peaceful fish get Labidochromis and Aulonacara species. Rusties are pretty mellow too. Red zebras are hit and miss. Sometimes they're fine, sometimes they're nuts.

Unless you want an aggressive tank, do avoid other Maylandia/Pseudotropheus species and all the larger haps like Dimidiochromis and Nimbochromis species (most haps get too big). I'd avoid Melanochromis species as well. The most vicious fish I've owned was Maylandia caillanos (cobalt blue).

I'm a believer in overstocking working for aggression so I'd keep 20-25 fish in a 72g. Make sure the filters can handle the bio-load and there's plenty of hiding places. Regular large water changes will help too.

[SGypsyMermaid]

[quote:7acb06f146="fOx"]Whoa Nelly!!! May I be the first to welcome you this hobby! Now that has been said, let's move on. Do not under any circumstance (at least until you get your bearings in this hobby) mix species from different lakes/continents... ie: keep the malawis with the malawis and the South Americans with outher South Americans... unless you want an instant blood bath! These species don't mix naturally and what you will find is competition for the same space/nooks/food and it will not go over well.

Moving along, you need to know (and everybody in this forum will support this) that cichlids are not community fish! They will chase, bite, and fight amongst one another. They are aggressive fish. The goal of any keeper is to minimize this aggression. This is done by choosing more docile species of fish. I know lake malawi, so I will start there. Labidocromis, and just anything known as a peacock will make a good "community fish". Steer clear of the Nimbocromis, Lombardoi, kennyis and anything else labled Mbuna ( I have a whole wack of all these species so no flack please, I'm trying to help the newcomer)

and I'm sure Gypsy will fill you in on the Tangs (I only have a Fronty, so I'm not the one to ask about that lake).

fOx[/quote:7acb06f146]

i'm afraid that i have to disagree with some of your statements, f0x. i would not mix cichlids from the americas with african lake cichlids, but i mix fish from different lakes all the time. some purists object to this, but i don't see a problem with it. choosing less aggressive fish is one way of curbing aggressiveness, but it is not the only way...for instance--you can keep relatively aggressive fish together if you practice 'controlled overcrowding' combined with a rock-filled landscape. nimbochromis are large predatory haps, but they are not mbuna. and tangs are not my specialty...other members are likely to be more helpful there. but you certainly did a great job of providing a ton of info to a new member! :D

[SGypsyMermaid]

[quote:fc652e71ea="Gregory"] Could Clown Loachs work in this setting instead of, or in addition to, Synodonits for bottom feeders?[/quote:fc652e71ea]

clown loaches work with mbuna...i'm not really sure how they would get on with haps. :?...( i didn't notice that this question had already been addressed.)

[Neil N]

Of course cichlids are community fish, you just need to keep them within the correct community,

Gregory the best advice is HAVE FUN, take this seriously (but not too seriously).

Dont worry about breeding at this stage, if it happens it happens

[Gregory]

Thanks all! It took me awhile to get back, I kept going to cichlid-forum.com :oops: I wondered why I couldn't find the beginner's forum again. cichlidrecipe.com has a compatibility chart that looks very helpful, any opinions?

Greg

[SGypsyMermaid]

[quote:562e82bcd5="Gregory"] cichlidrecipe.com has a compatibility chart that looks very helpful, any opinions?

Greg[/quote:562e82bcd5]

it's an excellent starting point. decide which fish you absolutely [i:562e82bcd5]must[/i:562e82bcd5] have, and then work around it. :wink: