Supplements and Trace elements/question

[Raymond John]

Hello Again....,
I just received my latest catalogue of Foster and Smith and once again I got the question running through my head of whether or not I should use Supplements that include trace elements from the Rift Lakes, especially that of Lake Tanganyika. When I was first introduced to Rift lake cichlids, I knew nothing of trace elements so never used them. I did however always use a cup of salt(non-iodized), by recommendation of the Pet Shop.
Their water is not buffered and has a pretty stable pH of about 7.0. They use the non-iodized salt in their aquarium and nothing else.
I have had the same fish for 2 years and unless I had one fish kill another, I have had no fish losses.......
I read recently that supplementing vitamins in the water is of no use to the fish since they do not absorb vitamins through their gills......so how would putting liquid trace elements back into the water benefit the fish?
Still though, should I even use the supplements?
Something tells me that I should stop using my non-iodized salt and use the Cichlid Salts recommended in the Catalogue.
Talk to You Soon,
Raymond John

[tom]

Hi Raymond

I'm moving this to the "African Tank" forum where it might elicit better replies.

In the meantime, briefly: I'm not familiar with the Cichlid Salts product you mention; but I'd nevertheless be cautious about adding x amount of salts to my tanks before getting two analyses: one from my local water supply folks to know what I'm beginning with--<I> particularly </I> if two years of using the water has resulted in no problems--and the other from a reliable source for the target lake's relative composition. Here's a link to what I would think is a reliable source of the latter: http://malawicichlids.com/mw01011.htm , along with the links just above the first table on that page.

[Raymond John]

Thanks Tom,
I must have searched the forum a hundred times before choosing the Tanganyikan section to post my question......I didn't want to bore the wrong people. LOL
Thanks again and talk to you soon,
Raymond John

[bluoval1]

I've had my Mbuna for about 3-4 yr's and short of water conditioner when I do water changes, I use nothing. I do have crushed coral for my substrate, but nothing else "extra".
All I do is regular water changes and filter media changes. I have had several succesfull spawns if that is an indication of water quality.

[fOx]

You have opened a can of worms with this question. Everybody keeps their fish in different water conditions, and everybody thinks that the way they do it is the ONLY way! I have been in plenty of these debates before.

Some people swear by using buffers in their water (I am one of them), others say its not neccessary. Some people swear by using trace elements (again, I am one of them) others say its not neccessary. There is no right or wrong answer. Personally (and this is my opinion) the trace elements help the fish to produce their protective "slime" coats more easily and as a result I have found that the fish can produce more intense colouring in their scales because of it. I notice that if I miss a week of the trace elements that some of their colours dull significantly. So I use the trace elements. Probably because my tap water has next to nothing beneficial in it.

But that being said, do whatever works for you. If you are having success without buffers or trace elements, more power to you. I am not going to try to convert people who are having success with the way they are keeping their fish now. But I will warn you that this question is a dangerous one to ask... many a yelling match has started over this debate. I've been involved in a few.

just remember, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

My tank works well with both, so I'm sticking to it.

good luck...

fOx

[SGypsyMermaid]

... many a yelling match has started over this debate. I've been involved in a few.



f0x, i hope that you have noticed that we try very hard not to have yelling matches on this forum. sure we disagree...but we try to recognize each person's right to their opinion. :wink:

[fOx]

I'm glad at least this forum tries, I have left a few others that did not respect others opinions...

At any rate, I stand by my posts...

fOx

[Raymond John]

Actually Fox, your answer was what I was looking for.....no-where could I find the benefits of adding trace elements......unless I missed it in the catalogues, I don't think they quite said it the way you just did, so here soon I plan to go purchase some.
Any brand or process(liquid or powder) that you recommend?
Thanks, and Talk to You Soon,
Raymond John

[fOx]

I have used two, one is the Hagen brand specifically for Rift lake cichlids. The other, which I am using now, is a Wardley product. I haven't noticed much difference between the two, they have both produced similar results. The reason I switched was because they built a new LFS around the corner (so I don't have to travel across town to get my stuff) and the new store doesn't carry the Hagen stuff...

hope my rambling helps...

fOx

[LeBigFishMiester]

Raymond,

I just had this discussion on another board, it ALWAYS gets people riled up! ;)

Everyone has their "own" way of doing things. Me personally I spend money on addiitives, others do not. Many just add plain old Epsom Salts, aquarium salt, and baking soda. Others (like me) use Kent or Seachem products, including Seachem Tang buffer, Kent AF cichlid salts, Marc Weiss Rift Lake Vital, etc. I have a crushed coral sand substrate, and larger peice coral in two cannisters. My 125g has a constant ph or 8.8 -9.0 and a GH and KH so high I never check it anymore.

My goal is to make my tank as close to the natural envirnment as possible, I guess adding these things makes me feel better about my tank...I guess I am a typical consumer.

Randy

[Xxzsdrklakdfj]

Now don't get me wrong this may be a coincidence but when i started adding trace elements to my tank within 2weeks i had L. signatus babies. Coincidence? i don't know, but i'm sure gonna keep using the stuff! :D

[matt1066]

I am a big fan of Kent cichlid buffer and chemistry, but I have always wondered about those trace elements.

Dont they get removed through chemical filtration, and doesnt that mean that my $ I spend on Chemi pure is wasted by the saturation of the media by the trace elements?

This I would love to know.

I'd drop the sodium by the way. :wink:

Matt

[fOx]

Now your starting another debate as to whether or not to use carbon in your filters. If you have no carbon, then your not pulling out the additives (it takes more than one pass to get rid of the additives in carbon anyways, that's why you keep adding more). Many people believe if you do regular water changes and watch your ammonia levels that bioloical filtration is enough for a tank by itself.

I'm not going to lean to one side or the other on this issue, this is where I always get my head bitten off... I've learned and I'm staying quiet.

Hope this helps...

fOx

[matt1066]

Fox,

Don't stay quiet, a good debate can be fun and informative.

Go for it.

Matt

[Raymond John]

8)
I never meant for this to turn into a debate......I've been wanting to use supplements which included trace elements but could never find any information as to what they actually do or if I even needed to, but with the information I've gathered here, they seem good enough of a reason to use them.
I thank everyone for their information.
Talk to You Soon,
Raymond John