Is this just stress?

[sroney]

A few months ago, I bought three fish were labelled Hap. Obliquiden. Apparently, from other info on this board, I guess that is probably incorrect, and I think they are "thick skin", and all males. Any way, one has always been dominant, with the other two having duller coloring. A month or two ago, the middle one (in dominance) died and the remaining sub-dominant continues to look very stressed:
http://www.cichlidforums.com/postimages/2004-10-24/72830-001.jpg and http://www.cichlidforums.com/postimages/2004-10-24/72830-002.jpg
Does this look just like stress? Here is a picture of the dominant one with one of my N. Sexfasciatus:
http://www.cichlidforums.com/postimages/2004-10-24/72830-003.jpg

[jennigypsy]

how big is your aquarium?...

[SGypsyMermaid]

and what are the other tankmates? what kind of hiding places are there? poor guys look pretty bad.

[sroney]

It is an 80 gallon, with lots of volcanic rock and other rocks. There are some picture in the gallery (http://cichlidforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=9539) , although the rocks have been rearranged.

In addition to these two:
3 Placidochromis Electra
1 Labidochromis Caeruleus (Electric Yellow)
1 Pseudotropheus Demasoni
2 Neolamprologus Sexfasciatus
3 Neolamprologus Leleupi (adult pair and offspring)
2 Altolamprologus Calvus
2 Cyphotilapia Frontosa (adult male and offspring)
1 Julidochromis Marlieri

1 large (12+ year old) Plecostamus

I never see anyone else bother him besides the dominant one (who also picks on the 2 larger Electra, the Peacock and the large Frontosa, though those all sometimes stand up to him)

[SGypsyMermaid]

hmmm...seems like he ought to be able to escape, but sometimes it just doesn't work. the problem is, if you take him out, the dominant one will probably not color up...maybe if you added a couple of females?

[sroney]

if you take him out, the dominant one will probably not color up...maybe if you added a couple of females?

Well, I don't know how to get any females. My LFS only had males even when I bought them.

My options for removal are somewhat limited, as I doubt my LFS would give me anything for him in his current state. My 20G at work seems like a poor choice ( Angelfish about his size + school of 9 Rasboras), as well as my daughter's 29g tetra tank. I have a small (5G or less) tank I could set up to see if he recovers, I suppose. I almost set that up a few weeks ago when he looked REALLY bat. He had a big whitish thing over his right eye and was hanging out at a funny angle. I think it was a wound, rather than a disease, because he was significantly better in a few days, and now he kind of hangs out in the corner hiding behind the fake greenery.

[punkypuffer]

hmmm a cloudy white eye could mean high ammonia or nitrates.. what are the parameters of that water? are you doing regular changes? that can make a difference.. he could be a "weaker" fish than the others in that sense

[sroney]

Well, even when I first saw the white eye I thought it looked like a wound, and when it got better in a couple of days (without an intervening water change, BTW), I wrote it off as that. None of the other fishes seem distressed in that way. I probably should test the water, though. Haven't done that in a while (and I don't change the water as often as recommended - about 30% every three to four weeks - but have very few casualties)

[SGypsyMermaid]

if you step up the water changes, you will probably see an improvement.

[samak]

Hi at my point of vue yur tank is a little bit too overcrowded, fronts needs more than 100 g to feel good and yu have many fishes in there. Yur thick skin is stressed and apparently has no way to hide(the fact that he's on the corner of the tank) If I would yu, i would sell or get rid of some of my fishes to permit the others to live in good condition and have a lower density of fishes.
Xris

[sroney]

Well, this thread is now diverging from being a Victoria thread, since these are my only Victorian fishes, but the tank seems actually a little calmer than it did with fewer fish. Yes, it is perhaps a little over-crowded, though the thick skins (if that is what they are) pretty much stay in open water, along with the Placidochromis Electra and the Peacock, while the rest of the fish stay down in the rocks. So the top half of the tank does not seem so crowded.

[aharris]

Well, taken overall, that many fish in an 80g is an extremely high bioload as many of them get fairly large (front, plecos, placidochromis). I don't know what your filtration is, but the pleco alone is producing massive loads of contaminants daily. At the very least, I would do as others have suggested and step the water changes up a lot. I would also seriously consider trading in some of those fish to reduce the bioload in the tank.

[sroney]

Well, if I DO trade in my stressed one, will the dominant one lose its color (or will the other open water fish be enough to keep him colored up)?

My smallest Placidochromis also hides a fair amount, so he would be another candidate to trade in (before he gets bigger).

[aharris]

If you could find a place to take it, I'd trade in the pleco definitely. If he's as old as you say, he's got to be huge and taking up a lot of space.

[SGypsyMermaid]

Originally posted by sroney
Well, if I DO trade in my stressed one, will the dominant one lose its color (or will the other open water fish be enough to keep him colored up)?

My smallest Placidochromis also hides a fair amount, so he would be another candidate to trade in (before he gets bigger).

there's a good chance that he won't color up without conspecifics in the tank. this guy is an excellent shipper:
http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwcichlidsv&1098975006