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unforgiven118
01-03-2003, 11:38 PM
Someone else told me that 55gallons (4ft) was to small for my red devil.
I thought this to be not true... I kept 3 S. natteri in there for several years. She seems happy enough in there and leaves the plecos alone for the most part. She is quite aggessive and has the personality of a dog. I've had her a year now and I just moved her from the 20 gallon she grew up in about a month ago.

so what is your opinion? is this to small, or should I go even bigger, if bigger what is the minimum size suggested?

Rex Karr
01-04-2003, 11:23 PM
55g is on the small side for a Red Devil, considering some can grow very large under captive circumstances. A 75g or larger would be ideal for a single Red Devil. Especially if breeding is a goal.

Rex

unforgiven118
01-04-2003, 11:26 PM
she's 3 and right around a foot long. She seems happy enough in there, interacting with people and such. I probably won't be able to breed her becuase of the fact that she is horribly agressive. I don't have room for a larger tank unfortunately, and I couldn't bear the idea of parting with her, so shes stuck in there I'm afraid.

Rex Karr
01-05-2003, 12:01 AM
[quote:767c274cbd="unforgiven118"]she's 3 and right around a foot long. She seems happy enough in there, interacting with people and such. I probably won't be able to breed her becuase of the fact that she is horribly agressive. I don't have room for a larger tank unfortunately, and I couldn't bear the idea of parting with her, so shes stuck in there I'm afraid.[/quote:767c274cbd]


Even extremely aggressive fish can be bred easily enough as long as an egg-crate divider is installed between the pair to keep them from getting to each other. A 75g is only 6" wider, and no longer than a 55g, but it would give her much more turnign room and make her more comfortable.

unforgiven118
01-05-2003, 12:10 AM
it's not a matter of length, it's actually width, and weight, plus financial concerns, I'm your average starving college student.

the stand I have the tank on is far better than any comercial stand available, but I only have a little more than a foot and a half to put the tank on, and I need ledge, if I could find a five foot tank that was only 1 wide and maybe 2.5 high... I would buy it... if I could afford it.

I'm not overly concerned, I've seen 2 foot clown loaches in 60 gallon tanks already. now that's cramped!

Rex Karr
01-05-2003, 08:40 AM
I was first going to say , Just because someone else has fish more cramped than yours that doesn't mean it is alright. But 2 foot Clown Loaches in a 60g! If the fish were really 2', I feel sorry for them, but I'm mostly just amazed. Considering that a 13" clown loach is HUGE for the species. A 12-13" Clown loach will run $300-400! And I have NEVER heard of them getting this big in captivity. IF they are, they would be worth over $1000. Can you get a picture or something? Please.

The thing is, Red Devils are actually a small fish in the wild, with females only reaching around 7". And that is natural. But in captivity where everyone over feeds, the fish grow abnormally large. But its where you say yours is around 12" that make things bad. A 12" wide tank just isn't really big enough for a 12" fish to move around in. I mean, it's far better than a 20g, and far better than what many people would have them in, but it's not optimum.

Rex

unforgiven118
01-05-2003, 02:26 PM
This was seriously a 2 ft clown loach... but it is in a shop that specializes in fish... amazingly enough. I'm assuming the tank is of course only a temporary home, and I imagine they took it on a trade hoping to place it immediately and not having a bigger tank available for keeping it. I do know it wasn't worth 1000 though, probably because they want to move it quickly. I once fancied buying a 200g tank and taking it off their hands...lol

As far as overfeeding, you don't over feed them, they make you overfeed them... how can you say no to that face? lol. I try not to overfeed her, about 25 pellets a day is all she gets.

but you say it's a matter of being to narrow over not being enough room? That would make me feel a little better. to tell the truth, she's only maybe 10 1/2 inches long, cause she can't quite touch the back wall when's she up in front trying to get to me. It helps that I'm not one of those people who obsesively over decorates... She has visciously destroyed all forms of plants I put in there, so I just took them out, and I really only built her a cave, and that's pretty much the only decoration other than a few other bits of this and that and some driftwood

thanks.

Rex Karr
01-05-2003, 07:00 PM
That is amazing. I think I may haev heard of one other that size before, but I'm not sure. They are definantly very rare at that size.

Twenty-five large pellets? That overfeeding :) Not that its bad for the fish, just that it makes them grow unnaturally large. Nearly everyone is guilty of this. Even those who are obsessed with makeing everything else in there cichlids evironment perfectly natural, still overfeed and make a 10" max fish reach 16".

Is she 10" total? Or without the tail? If it is total legnth then she probably has enough room. And if you say she is 3 years old, she won't be growing much more. So she should be fine in that tank.

unforgiven118
01-05-2003, 11:23 PM
yes, she's right about 10-11 inches nose to the tail fin.

25 medium hikari gold pellets a day, she doesn't like the large ones for some reason, she just spits them out. I don't feel this is overfeeding, cause she only begs at the surface when she's hungry.

I figure she is about 3, I've had her 2 years, and they geustimated 1 when I bought her.

yes, the clown loach is big indeed, I wonder if the guy at the store would let me have a picture... I'll post it in here if I get one, just as a matter of curiosity.

mdemers883
02-03-2003, 05:57 AM
she wasn't in that 20g for 2yrs was she? :shock: and that is one huge loach.

Mark

unforgiven118
02-03-2003, 11:51 AM
she was in the 20 gallon for a long time actually..... not 2 years about 6 months. then I put her in a 30 for about a year, and now she lives in a 55 gallon.

I saw the loach again the other day... no luck with a pic yet though. :(

chc
02-27-2003, 12:00 AM
I always thought a 75 was perfect for a single red devil, but now I actually think a five foot 120 is perfect.

All in all, if you are changing enough water each week, the fish will still probably be fine. I just like to put myself in the position of the fish....... I'd prefer the bigger tank!

REX..... what is your source on your wild fish? I've got a number of wold ones but can never get enough!

Rex Karr
02-27-2003, 10:56 AM
I have a friend that orders fron Conkel every once in a while.