Another newbie, complete with mistakes...

[Tighe]

Hello fishkeepers all..

I am new to fish, and would never have gotten any (images of WalMart with 60 fish stuffed into a small tank, four dead and being cannibalized, two more swimming upside down being pecked at... yuck!), but an old 20 gallon tank came with my classroom, and the kids kept asking when I was going to set it up. I didn't know how to, but a classroom aide did, so off to the fish store I went. It was incredible! Clean tanks, everybody happy, beautiful colors everywhere! I fell for a cool white fish with a perpetually surprised expression, was told it was not a good candidate for a new tank, but they hung a sold sign on her tank, and four weeks later, she was mine. Turned out to be a Bolivian ram, and I really like her.

However, as a "newbie" I made a lot of mistakes, including thinking the 20 gallon tank was 29 gallons, and I overstocked. So, I bought a used 75 gallon tank to take care of that problem, but I also succumbed and bought more fish, and I think I have overstocked again . Here's the current situation and problems:

75 gallon tank slightly planted tank (maybe 10-12 plants)
2" of red aquarium planting dirt (? came in bags) covered by 2-4" smooth gravel
Fluval 404 canister filter
12" long bubble stone on opposite side of tank from filter
Temperature steady at 78-80 degrees
pH: unknown: my test kit gives highly varied readings
Ammonia & nitrate levels undetectable by my kit (bottles and vials, not dip sticks)

fish:
14 neon tetras (was 16, but two faded and died; two more look pale..)
6 golden pristella tetras (was 7- one got terribly skinny and died)
4 cherry barbs (2 m,2 f, were aggressive in the 20 gallon tank, now calm)
2 flying fox (from what I've read, this is a big mistake)
3 small (about 1") corydoras (2 c. hastatus, 1 c. pygmaeus) I really like these guys!
2 neon yellow calico platies (1 m, 1 f)
7 forktail rainbows (very small and fast: about 1 inch each)
3 leopard danios, prob.2" each, including tails
2 checherboard barbs, both male; very beautiful, but pick on the rams!
1 hoplo catfish, about 3" now
2 Bolivian rams, one male, one female (Maxine, my favorite)
2 blue (German, butterfly) rams, quite small 1.5" (one male, I think the other is female...)

Questions:

Do I have too many or too mixed a group for a 75 gallon tank?
(I hope to get a larger tank for home [125-180] and slowly bring them all home for the summer)... any tips on setting this tank up? I am thinking I will need two filters... what would you recommend?

The male Bolivian was very assertive and dominant in the store tank, and highly colored; he had two females that he herded around. In my tank, he spends all day in hiding, doesn't seem to eat, and now has some spots on his back anal fin... is this normal coloring for a ram, or is it something "icky?" Store man recommended adding 12 tablespoons of aquarium salt, which I did. Any thoughts?

Male blue ram has fins which appear shredded. I think he came that way (he has been with me about a week), but I am not sure. I am a little suspicious of the checkerboard barbs, who chase everybody. Again, any thoughts?

Will I be able to keep the flying fox and hoplo with this crowd, or do I need to re-home them? The female Bolivian likes hanging around the hoplo, and follows him everywhere, ignoring or pecking at the male Bolivian.

Any thoughts or suggestions gratefully accepted..

Tighe (and the three dogs, four horses, and 48 fish, especially Maxine)[/i]

[WorldNation]

alright! tropical fish, ahh, those were the good old days.

ok, the white spots on the tail is probably ick. to truelly get rid of it, i mean really! so it wont come back!, you need more then medication.

use medications(with slat as the store guy said) till its cured, recommend maracyn 1 or 2. those are the best meds in my experience. then after the ick has desapeared, clean out your tank, take all the gravel, and boil it! yes, boil the crap out of it! kill every lilk dman parasite in there, cause ick will get stuck in the gravel, and aftter you get it once, it'll keep coming back until you boild everything you can, if you have plants(live) i suggest get new ones, decorations, soak them in chlorine+water for 10-15min, wrinse,a nd you cna put'em back. that will kill the ick(if it is ick, go to a few pet stores to make sure).

you didnt really overstock the 75gallon, thats jsut a lil over the limit i think, but as long as you clean it regulary, youre totaly fine.

barbs usually are agressive to smaller fish, there might be some picking and biting, but in a 75g tank, they should cause any seriosue trouble.

shredded fins usually mean fighting.

[Rex Karr]

The first thing you should do is buy some good test kits. This is very important.

Your not really overstocked. Mos tof your fish are very small species and all are peaceful species.

You have lots of choices for filtration for a 125-180g. My to suggestions would be to use either 2-3 power filters like Whispers and Aquaclears, or a large canister filter like an Ehiem (you may even want to combine both types).

How long have you had the Rams? Are the spots actually external bumps? If not, they probably aren't serious. If the y are bumps, they are probably ich, but its not really that big of a problem. And I don't think you have to go through all the steps WorldNation recommended. Ich can be present in an aquarium, but can only infest sick, weak, or stressed fish. So it's possible that the Ram is the only fish that has it, and none of the other fish will catch it. The parasites which cause the white bumps release eggs into the water, the eggs fall into the gravel and hatch, then they must swim back up into the tank and find a host. As far as I know, you can only kill ich in the swimming stage. And if the swimming ich can't find a host they die. Hight temperatures, salt, and large frequent water changes can cure ich for good. Sometimes it will take medication though. But a lot of your fish (Characins/Tetras) are very sensitive to medications. I would suggest (if the fish actually have ich) to remove it to a small hospital tank with freshwater, where you can raise the temperature and add a medication. I would also raise the temperature in the main tank and perform frequent water changes (always adding salt). From now on, you should always quarantine any new fish.


I've never kept a Flying Fox, but I know that the Hoplo will be fine with the other fish even though he will be larger.

Rex

[Tighe]

I'm back at school today (snow day yesterday) to find that the blue ram with the tattered fins was dead. His body had no fins left on it at all, and had what appeared to be a hole punched in his body near the gills. I don't know if the damage is what killed him, or if he got picked on after he was dead. Also, those two pale neons vanished... no bodies found. Down to 12...

The male Bolivian is doing much better in some ways. He is out from hiding, has colored up, and is begining to assert his personality. Now that he is out and I can see his fins better, it almost looks as though the "ick" spots on his anal fin are supposed to be there. They don't seem to bump out, but almost look like thin places in his fin. There are four spots, arranged in two short lines like this- :: and they are a thin transparent bluish color, ksometimes seeming to glimmer. Do rams have spots there?

How high should I move the temperature? I put it at 82 - should I go higher? Should I hold off on medicating until I know? I have a 20 gallon tank, set up and running with no fish, but I hate to stress this guy out again if he is okay.

With the larger tank (125-180), I like the idea of a very large Eheim cannister filter combined with a large Whisper or AquaClear. Sounds like that would work.

Delighted that the Hoplo should work, and I will keep the small 20 gallon set up as a quarantine situation...

Thanks for the advice. I think I will visit the fish store tomorrow and scrutinize any other male rams he has for those spots... :-)

Tighe