Bad advice from shops

[NEO_72]

Hi everyone, I though I'd start a thread where you can list some of the worst advice you've received from different fish shops, or some bad mistakes that others could learn from. It might prove useful to others starting out to know what 'not' to do. Just because a person works at a fish store doesn't always mean they know best. I would suggest new enthusiasts do some research on these forums before commiting to any purchases.

For myself, I started off with a Blood Parrot, and really wanted to get some cardinal tetras. One store told me I wouldn't have any problems, and sold me 10 to take home. Everyone can guess they became lunch real quick. So, small tetras are not suitable for medium to large cichlids.

What are some growing pains others have gone though?

[Vip]

The lfs told some guy when i was there thats its ok to have these 2 red devils in the same 45g tank!
i seen the guy back there about 2 days later and was complaing that they dont get along, so the lfs guy goes, maybe you should buy another tank to put one of them in, well it did work, but the things stuck in a 3ftx18"x18" tank..

[aharris]

Yes, you can put 20 in a 20g tank. I don't know how many times I've heard that one. It doesn't even work when you scale it to 1" of fish per gallon unless you're talking about the right kind of fish.

Oh, and fish will never outgrow their living space. That's another biggie. Fish are living organisms just like cats and dogs. If that logic held true, I could buy an elephant and if I could stuff it into a pet taxi it would never outgrow that. Duh!!

[Poet8102]

Originally posted by aharris
Yes, you can put 20 in a 20g tank. I don't know how many times I've heard that one. It doesn't even work when you scale it to 1" of fish per gallon unless you're talking about the right kind of fish.

Oh, and fish will never outgrow their living space. That's another biggie. Fish are living organisms just like cats and dogs. If that logic held true, I could buy an elephant and if I could stuff it into a pet taxi it would never outgrow that. Duh!!

That's my favorite one. Especially when they apply that to pacu's.

[NEO_72]

Off topic here, but sparked by the 'elephant in the pet taxi' - I've seen kittens grown inside oddly shaped glass jars to deliberatley deform them. Even though cats eat fish ;), that still is just WRONG. The search for the marketably exotic, as can be seen is dyed fish.

Please don't buy dyed fish. A green, blue or pink Blood Parrot has been dyed. As well as 'blueberry' and 'strawberry' tetras. They are the only ones I've seen.

[crazyfishlady]

Anything with painted or jellybean in the name - pretty good chance that it's dyed.

[aharris]

They did it to people too. Did anyone watch Nat. Geo Channel on Tuesday night? They had a docu on Chinese foot-binding. The last women who had it done to them are all in the 70's and older, but they showed the horrible things that it did. Women died from gangrene because they're feet would break and form pustules. They did it all because a 4" pointed foot was considered the height of sensuality and was sexually stimulating to men. By the way, gay noblemen would also bind their feet.

It is one thing for a consenting adults to deform themselves (although Chinese children didn't have a choice), but it is quite another for us to deliberately deform animals for our own amusement.

[jonah]

Originally posted by NEO_72
Off topic here, but sparked by the 'elephant in the pet taxi' - I've seen kittens grown inside oddly shaped glass jars to deliberatley deform them. Even though cats eat fish ;), that still is just WRONG. The search for the marketably exotic, as can be seen is dyed fish.


The "bonsai kitty" website was a practical joke, I can't believe anybody really believed it was real. It sure made a lot of people mad though.:rolleyes:

Chinese footbinding is real though, but it's not practiced anymore. I'd be surprised if anybody has suffered that torture since Chairman Mao set up shop in '49.

They still disfigure women in Africa on a regular basis though. It's called female circumcision and I'll let you all figure out what's involved on your own. Very unpleasant for the girl.

[jonah]

Oscar will do fine in a 10g is the all time classic dumb advice I've heard in fish stores.

[Matt V]

so many to choose from it's hard.

every time that I have to buy food or filter media or conditioner or vitamins or something, i always stop by the cichlids just for kicks. and usually i hear the same dumbass things like:

"No, auratus aren't that agressive."

but scarier are the simple things that you don't hear -
like "how big is your tank?" or "what other fish do you have?" or "here's what you feed an mbuna..."

so, that often leaves me with a slight dilemma - do I say something? will it be received as helpful or just a nosy know it all stepping on the employees turf? do i follow the people with the bags out of the fish dept and tell them - "Please don't do that!" or should they learn the same way i did (and many others did, i'd guess) by screwing up in spectacular ways?

so, what do we do when we hear this lousy advice?

[Seedy]

Matt, that's a dilema I struggle with as well...My solution to the problem is to no longer shop at the main corperate chains....I'm not as tempted to intrude when I know the pet store employee is the owner and is giving advice to the best of his/her knowledge...but unfortunately only one store in all Tulsa fits that bill...

I tend to adopt a my "business professional" attittude when trying to assist people at the fish store...ie, I try to phrase everything positively and only say things that are encouraging...but that can be difficult...(especially when you know the advice being given will result in dead fish)...Usually when presented this way both the customer and Lfs employee react possitvely as well..but hey, this is the midwest and people always seem to talk to strangers out here...I'm not sure how well that approach would work in LA or NYC...

[jonah]

If I'm in a good mood (not often), I'll tell them "Hi, I've been keeping fish for 10 years and I'm the treasurer of the local aquarium society, may I give you some advice?" Usually they're happy to have someone with experience, that's not trying to sell them anything, give them advice. I also try to not come off as a know-it-all or seem confrontational with the sales staff.

Sometimes they take it, sometimes they don't, but at least I tried. I just hate to see anybody give up too quickly on this amazing hobby of ours. If I didn't quit so easily after disaster I would be on my 30th year instead of 10th.

[Matt V]

yeah, i used to avoid chains and the like, too - even take an El ride WAY out of my way to avoid them.

but then, PetSmart opened around the corner from my office... like have to walk right by it on my way to the train... every day... they have tanks there... big ones... it's cruel.

that and i'm lazy. when providence plops a pet store - even just a petsmart - in my path, i just had to cave.

[Matt V]

good advice all!
i'll try that next time i'm in a good mood (not all that often for me either as I usually stop post-work.)

[Ding]

As a newbe.....
I wished I found this site before buying my fish! I don't regret what I bought , I love my fish! BUT by adding 4 severums & 2 firemouths, to a 49g tank that has been established for over 8 years with 2 silver dollars & snakeskin gourami changes the dynamics BIG TIME!!!! what was I thinking :confused:

[skiitswitch]

Yeah... my best so far was when went to get another fish and they sold me a bumblebee "cause they're pretty timid"... needless to say I don't have him anymore.

[jonah]

That's pretty bad. My last male bumblebee was about 8" and was so dominant that he was still black after sitting in a bag for 12 hours during the drive down to Dallas and sitting on an auction table all day. Most fish would have gotten faded.

[NEO_72]

I'm glad to hear that the 'bonsai kitty' thing is a fraud. Although I did believe the pictures I saw were real - it's not exactly beyond belief given the scope of man's atrocities and our callous reverence of the bottom line...

[aharris]

Here's a great web-link to go to anytime someone sends you internet pics with a story and insists they're real:

http://urbanlegends.about.com/

My husband gets so mad when he sends me pics from work and I check 'em out here. The most recent one was the giant snake that had obiously eaten something very large liek a small antelope. Later pics showed it cut open with what looked like human remains sticking out. Total fake!

[Gromit]

Yep, that is a great site, I use it to debunk those silly emails/photos that my friends and family will sometimes send (most often from those who are new to the world of the internet). Anything from painted cats to sharks that attack helicopters to cookie recipes that cost hundreds of dollars. :)

Michael


http://urbanlegends.about.com/

[joenorwood77]

African Clawed frogs sure are cute but the fish store didn't warn me that these little guys will grow up to eat many fish. I was upfront about my tropheus in my tank and the shopkeeper told me they are compatible. Well, luckily the green terror started to pick on the frogs so I moved the 2 frogs into a 10 gallon probably weeks before they would be eating my tropheus. Sadly though, I called the store to ask if these two frogs are OK to go into the 10 gallon with my bullfrog tadpole. They told me they would work out great together. Well, not even 24 hours later, I stood up to see the tadpole, who was literally as big as the frog, being eaten alive. I was so sad. Especially since I rescued the tadpole during the wintertime in a plastic bag of water abandoned in a parking lot.

[NEO_72]

Yeah, my friend was BS'ed about the frogs, too. And then after many disappearances, took them back, only to have the guy say that the frogs DO eat fish as they grow, and that no, sorry, he couldn't take them back.

[Heyguy74]

LOL. I was in petsmart the other day and the store manager is telling this 8or 9 year old kid that he can put a Red Devil in a 20 gallon tank with neons and rosy barbs. I looked at him and asked "If he was kidding". He smiled and just laughed. He knew he was telling the kid bullcrap and he didnt care. Its one thing when some kid who works in a LFS, tells a customer something thats wrong based on ignorance but its totaly different when they deliberatly lie to a kid. It really pissed me off and I had to tell the kid the guy was full of crap. I told the kid not to buy the fish as it would get way to big for his tank. At least he didn't buy the fish.

[NEO_72]

Kudos man!

[Seedy]

Originally posted by Heyguy74
LOL. I was in petsmart the other day and the store manager is telling this 8or 9 year old kid that he can put a Red Devil in a 20 gallon tank with neons and rosy barbs. I looked at him and asked "If he was kidding". He smiled and just laughed. He knew he was telling the kid bullcrap and he didnt care. Its one thing when some kid who works in a LFS, tells a customer something thats wrong based on ignorance but its totaly different when they deliberatly lie to a kid. It really pissed me off and I had to tell the kid the guy was full of crap. I told the kid not to buy the fish as it would get way to big for his tank. At least he didn't buy the fish.

Hmmm...did you ever consider speaking with that employees supervisor?...I wonder if that kind of mis-information is encouraged or discouraged by management...

[Heyguy74]

Seedy,

I did think about calling in to corporate headquarters, saince he was the store manager but I figured it would go nowhere. To be honest I think all they care about is sales. It really sad.

[cichgirl]

I stay far, far away from the chains. My lfs is a little more pricey, but the owner is extremely knowledgeable, has actually turned down sales by asking the right questions, and has taken some of my fish to a better home. There is a kid that works there and it's just a job for him. He just scoops out fish and puts them in baggies. I really don't think he knows anything at all about cichlids, but since she's there all the time, she usually handles cichlid and salt water sales. He takes the regular sales. :) The rest of the staff are cichlid and salty geeks, which works well for me. They will even order 5-10 fish for me to pick one if they don't have the fish I want in stock. Oh, and they rescue neglected fish all the time too. She had a stunted oscar that almost looked the shape of a discus. The gills were curled and the fins were tattered and short. The person who had him must've kept him in a 10-20 gallon tank. He was sick, pastey, no color & not an albino. It was really sad. She put him in her store's 175 tank and nursed him back to health. She eventually took him home because she became attached to him and didn't think she could sell him anyway. He's now living as close to a happy life that a stunted fish could.

I'll gladly pay higher prices to keep a store like that around.

[Seedy]

[i]
I'll gladly pay higher prices to keep a store like that around. [/B]
:) Me too!

[Matt V]

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I'll gladly pay higher prices to keep a store like that around.
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Me too!




huge agreement there. i'm on a king coral high right now. everytime i go to that store, i get visions of the tanks i will someday have instead of interior walls! :)

[aharris]

I'm slobbering over the prospect of ordering some of their f0 C. furcifer Ruziba, but they'll probably be out by the time I can afford to again.

[Matt V]

Originally posted by aharris
I'm slobbering over the prospect of ordering some of their f0 C. furcifer Ruziba, but they'll probably be out by the time I can afford to again.

if you want me to run over and check if they've got 'em, i'd be happy to! it's almost exactly 3 miles from my front door (15 minutes on the bus).

they were there today! if you want, email them and tell them that i'd be coming to pick 'em out for ya!

[aharris]

I gotta wait for the money :P, but I appreciate the offer. If I get the money soon, I may ask you to help me out.

[Matt V]

cool.
let me know! i really don't need an excuse to go there, but i'll always take one! :ok:

[DewDropPony]

Not all chain stores are bad. I worked at a petsmart for awhile and we could refuse to sell the fish if we knew they were going to do something crazy with it like stick an oscar in a 10gal.

[NEO_72]

Hey DewDropPony - I never meant to imply all stores were bad!!

But I suffered many growing pains because of bad advice until I found the right places to shop(and the right forum to get advice from ;)

[Vip]

my lfs told me to put my 2 red devils in the same 79g tank, they started to rip each other apart straight away, i dont have them in the 79 anymore and i blasted the store owner.

[jennigypsy]

worked at a petsmart for awhile and we could refuse to sell the fish if we knew they were going to do something crazy with it like stick an oscar in a 10gal.

Funny, I was at Petsmart the other day and listened as a fish person sold a nice hick couple 2 -5" oscars that the hicks told them were going into a 10 gallon....I said something to the other fish girl...she said, "well, they said they have 2 filters running"...the fish guy told them they'd need a bigger tank in a month..so, they went ot look at the ....40 gallon tanks...ah yes, MUCH better there....
The fish girl said "we just don't guarantee the fish when they buy them & put them in a too small tank...can't argue w/ them..they'll just complain & get their way anyway"...but they never told those folks there was no guarantee...


Just my recent experience....

[cichgirl]

2 5" oscars in a ten?? Holy S#!t!

[DewDropPony]

Yes, unfortunately not all petsmarts are the same. What I was trying to point out is that because some stores within a chain are bad doesn't make them all bad. Some of these place can and do make sure the fish go to the right people. This also takes alot of time, because most shoppers had no idea they were not suppose to put a gold fish in a bowl. rrrrr!!!

[Photorah]

If only we could have a training class or fish geeks at our stores

But unfortunitly unlesss it is hurting the human owner people eventualy dont care. People keep akita's in apartments and oscars are in 10 g tanks.

We all know it is wrong but no matter the knowlege people still make stupid dicisions in realtion to animals you know its a big fish need a big tank you know its a big dog need a big yard but humans will close both up in a tiny box

Not that i condone any of the above behaviors, i couldn't even cull my hybrids if I have some.

[jennigypsy]

Yes, unfortunately not all petsmarts are the same. What I was trying to point out is that because some stores within a chain are bad doesn't make them all bad. Some of these place can and do make sure the fish go to the right people. This also takes alot of time, because most shoppers had no idea they were not suppose to put a gold fish in a bowl. rrrrr!!!

No, I guess they all aren't "BAD", but let's face it- like Photo said, it's not like there are fish classes going on ANYWHERE...the stores are lucky to find workers w/ some interest, let alone experience.
Yes, it 'takes a lot of time'....i worked for a chain store in my past and DID take time to explain the ups & downs the best I could-and sometimes asking them to buy a book & read up alittle before moving forward...then caught hell from the manager for spending too much time-that's just the way it goes.
So, saying this, the chains aren't "BAD" but even you have to admit that "BE THOROUGH" isn't what the manager tells you to do is it?...IMO, taking the $6 an hour job at a petstore is taking on a big responsibility....
BUYER BEWARE
DO YOUR HOMEWORK BEFORE INVESTING TIME/+MONEY

[oscar_pack]

i was at my lfs last week, and this guy was looking at the oscar tank, and i was talking with him, and he said he was interested in buying an oscar, so i asked him what size his tank was he said oh its pretty big, about 20gl's. i then told him he was making a mistake in buying an oscar, unless it was a growout tank. after i told him that he got pissed! i really wasnt expecting him to get so mad. just proves that you cant always help.

[Glaive]

edited at glaive's request--sgm

[punkypuffer]

i worked at a petsmart for 3 years and i was lead in the fish department. Despite my efforts, no matter what, "if the customer wants it, we can't refuse the sale, even if we know it won't work." - Actual quote from our regional director referring to live animal sales including fish, birds, small & furry, and reptiles.

[DewDropPony]

I guess they changed that since you worked there or maybe just my store went against that. We did refuse sales.

''like Photo said, it's not like there are fish classes going on ANYWHERE...''
Jenni, we did/do offer classes for newbies. A speaker would talk to the class about things like starting your new tank, over-stocking their tanks, and the nitrogen cycle. At the end of the class information would be passed out about the information that was covered in the class and they would get a starter's package of supplies for their tanks.

Our mangers didn't have a problem with me spending time with the customer getting them set up the right way. I know because I've done it. Sometimes I'd spend 30-40 minutes with one customer answering questions and helping them set up their tanks the right way. I'd take them through the isles and help them find the equipment they needed, explain what it was, what it does for their tank, and how to perform regular maintenance
on it. I'd also guide them through what fish are good for the size tank they want, or what tank is good for what fish they want.


I don't know if all the petsmart stores do everything the same. I don't know how other petsmart stores handle their work or if their managers let them spend as much time helping each person like we did. I guess from what you're telling me they don't or they changed it or whatever. I do know what went on at the store I worked at and I hate to see the good work of the people there completely over looked and unbelieved. Some places are trying to make a step in the right direction, even in the chain industry. I'm being honest.

[cichgirl]

Good post, dewdroppony, you are right.. As much as I have a favorite lfs that gets 99% of my business, I do go to petsmart occasionally, and twice have been wrapped in conversation with the fish geeks working there. They actually have a breeding pair of texas cichlids in the store and are refusing to sell one or the other. One kid was telling me that they will refuse to sell them to anyone unless they can provide the right home. I can't defend that chain due to the amount of times I've been there, but it just goes to show you that there are some people out there that work for these places who know their products. It is hard to find but when you do it is a breath of fresh air. Some stores find it more important than others. It depends on the management. There are 2 other fish/pet stores around me that I refuse to go to because the management stinks.

[DewDropPony]

Thank you for backing me up, cichgirl!

[punkypuffer]

its awesome to hear about other ex petsmart associates like me that actually knew what they were talking about and actually cared about what they were telling customers. on a few occasions i felt like it was testing my morals, ya know? i cared so much about the fish, and a customer would buy an oscar for a ten gallon, and bring it back 2 weeks later dead, and i had to give them another one or their money back, despite the efforts to teach them proper fish care. one of the reasons i left there was because of the policy we had that i mentioned earlier, about pleasing the customer no matter what. i couldn't take it anymore, selling a hamster to a family and the first time the kid holds it he drops it on the floor (we had one break his neck and couldn't get up, and he died a slow horrible death 2 days later because the manager didn't want to waste the departments money on the vet---in the store!).


However, i know that many of the associates have the best intentions, and it's a shame that many of them are not taken seriously by their customers, who just classify all of the workers there under a 'don't know anything' category.

also, i'm sure we've all been to the lfs (non corporate) and been told a bunch of bs. we pretty much have to figure out whats correct for ourselves, or by asking others and researching it.

[pmipunisher]

guy at west coast tropical said 2 oscars, electric blue and yellow will be fine in a 10 gal tank. yellow killed all and so we bought a blue cichlid not electric i forgot the name and that killed the yellow so we put a red devil in there and so thats where he is alone with 10 dead feeder fish in his tank due to his meanness

[Glaive]

Yikes in a 10? None of those fish belong in a 10!!!

[dan1]

bought a elec. blue ali from pet smart, should have know better. At the time I was new to breeding them and the one in the store was far more colored at 2-21/2 inc than my own. bought it , put with some of my small ali's about the same size. within about three weeks it lost almost all color an turned out to be not near as good of stock I already had. Morale to the story would be, "sometime's if it looks to good to be true, It probably is"
BE AWARE ALOT OF STORES ARE USING HARMONES.

[Glaive]

my freyeri was colored up at 2.5 inches due to high quility food when I got him, I kept him on the same fodo and he has never lost color. Not to say fish stores don't mess with thier fish, just saying it isn't always the case, I look forward to breeding mine to see when the fry color up

[punkypuffer]

it's not really the 'stores' that use hormones, its the breeders. petsmart and petco get fish from the same dealers as many local fish stores do. they get a whole buttload of fish sent to a corporate place and seperate them to distribute to individual stores. petsmart and petco wouldn't waste the time breeding all of the fish they have.

[follr]

I'm fairly new to cichlids. I did the typical newbie thing and went out to the LFS saw some beautiful colorful fish and bought them. went home put them in my yard sale aquired 20g tall. then started reading about cichlids.

Now when I go into the chain stores I shake my head. Even my LFS that supposidly "knows cichlids" feeds me crap. I find it better to read here and other sites before I go to the store. Then I'm not shocked when I get home and add a new fish. Now I have a 125g malawi community. It's coming along great. Thanks to you guys here and other information on the web.

Also, most of the LFS will hold a fish with a sold sticker or sign, for 24hr if you ask. ( I haven't tried it at a chain store like PetSmart or Walmart). This will give you time to go home do a bit of research then come back with the right information for that fish.

And stay away from the "MIXED CICHLID" tank. 95% of those are hybrids.

[malex]

I'm really surprised that so many , if not all, chain stores in america wont refuse sales. I'm a deputy manager at a large chain store in England and we refuse sales all the time, no problem at all! It's a company policy that the livestock comes first, even before the customer.

Fortunatly we deliberatly dont sell any of the more difficult fish to care for, its mostly all for small community tanks, tetras, mollies etc. we do this on purpose because we know that in a large store it is almost impossible to ensure that all of your staff are going to be knowledgeable enough to be able to safely recommend/advise/sell large cichlids, marine fish etc. Although I do have several "fish geeks" working for me (not including myself although I'm getting there slowly!) unfortunately some of the part-time staff do need heavy supervision when serving fish.

[DogWalker]

This is an old thread, but just as TV shows will sometimes devote an episode to Bloopers, Out-takes and other Low Moments, our dear lfs folks deserve some continued air-time here too. If it helps some people spot and avoid bad advice that is justification to keep it going.

I find when we go to a chain lfs we find 3 types of people. Many chain stores have one or two employees who really know their stuff and are courteous and helpful. These are gems and the hobbiest would do well to learn to spot them and go back to them. Then there are low wage inexperienced employees who will admit it if they don't know the answer to your questions. They are at least honourable in that respect.

Then we come to the 3rd type - the person who assumes that because they are employed by an lfs they are by default more knowledgeable than you on any hobby-related subject. These can be further subdivided into the gregarious know-it-alls and the grouchs who seem dissapointed that working with fish doesn't mean they get to avoid dealing with humans.

I've been told that Pacus grow to about 6" and other stuff of that sort, but my favorite one is setup related: One of the more senior staff at a large chain outlet, who serves you with the charm of battery acid, regulary gives apalling advice, and snaps at you no matter how delicately you disagree with her wisdom, told me "it doesn't matter if the stand isn't flat, you only need support at the four corners". And we were talking about 6' tank/stand setups... And she trains junior staff members.

Let's have it folks, I'm sure there are some other prize-winners out there! It's therapeutic to vent (and it just may help someone else).

[rixy]

"yes,they'll all be fine together" how many times have i heard that!! why dont fish shops ask how big is your tank,how many fish do you have in your tank,what fish do you have in your tank,how long has your tank been running.why,why,why dont they ask these questions.god only knows how many neons live with shovel nose cats,or,discus in with malawi's.it doesnt bare thinking about.