My electric yellow mbuna

[Simms123]

Hi all, I recently set up an African cichlid tank. It's a 20 gallon tank, with enough hiding places, filter, heater, and air pump system. I currently have four African cichlids in there and they are all I plan on having in there for now. I have one electric yellow mbuna, one kenyi, one bumblebee, and one albino. They all seem to be getting along fine and they don't seem to be having a problem adjusting to a new tank. My one problem is that my electric yellow mbuna seems to be doing a lot of hiding. I read online that this type of cichlid likes to hide. He does not seem to be getting picked on but I just wanted to ask to make sure, should I be concerned? Also they are all almost exactly the same size, any other suggestions you could offer for my tank are welcome. And if someone has a good web address that has good cichlid information and could post it I would appreciate that as well. Thank you all.

[Seedy]

The hiding does not concern me...but the bumblebee in a 20 does...this fish gets bigger than the average mbuna...and tends to be very aggresive towards its tank mates...you need to go bigger or have the bumble bee (Maylandia crabro) go back to the lfs...

Here is a link (note the min tank size)http://malawimayhem.com/profile_show.php?id=314

[Simms123]

Hmmm, I would rather not return the bumblebee he doesn't seem to be very agressive right now. But if I have to could you suggest a better tank mate for my other 3 cichlids?

[Seedy]

In a 20? I cant recomend anything mbuna...I would also say that the kenyi is going to be a problem in that 20 too...(I know this is not what you want to hear)

the only africans cichlids that are really suited to be kept in a 20 are either shell dwellers or dwarves...and shellies should not be kept with the mbuna...Is this a 20 long (breeder/long) or a hex or a show tank (tall) or a standard 20?

If you have a breeder tank you could try a trio (1m 2f)of smaller Aulonocara species as a breeding colony...(with no other fish)

You could add a P.demasoni if you wanted another mbuna in there..but I'm not recomending it...

[Simms123]

Man I tell ya, this 20 gallon tank is starting to look like the biggest waste of money ever. What do I have to do spend 300 dollars on a 55 gallon tank setup to have a couple of cichlids?! Jeez! It's a 20 gallon show tank I believe. The box says 20 gallon tall but it's still wider than it is tall.

[es]

umm...shop around I found a 55G tank kit for 160$ at Wal-Mart and most kits are alot cheapter then 300$

[Seedy]

20 gallons is great for tropical fish! You can keep tetras and guppys and gouramis till your sick of em in that tank...but cichlids are BIG aggresive fish with special requirments and one of those requirments is a larger tank...sorry, just the facts...

[Simms123]

I already have a 10 gallon tank with tropical community and let me say they are BORING. I went to cichlids because I wanted colorful agressive and more importantly ACTIVE fish. I hate community fish, I find them quite boring. I am going to take my chances with this tank, I spent enough money on it to get it setup.

[Seedy]

Ok....but expect an "I told ya so" from me...

[es]

http://www.malawimayhem.com/profile_show.php?id=247 - Yellow Lab - Min Tank Size 30 Gallons
http://www.malawimayhem.com/profile_show.php?id=314 - bumble bee - Min Tank Size 75 Gallons
http://www.malawimayhem.com/profile_show.php?id=399 - kenyi - Min Tank Size 50 Gallons

I'm no expert but how much research did you actully do before you bought these fish?

[Simms123]

Ok, I was told on different forums and by the people at the store that I would be fine with these fish in my size tank. They only grow 5 inches, with the exception of the bumblebee. And if I remember correctly the guidline is 1 inch per gallon of water in the tank. And with 4 fish each growing to 5 inches, that would be 20 inches, in 20 gallons of water. If the bumblebee begins to become a problem or get too big I can take him out. So according to a widely accepted rule, I am not overly wrong. I am not saying your opinions are worthless, quite the contrary, but I feel I can be successful with this tank.

[es]

the 1 inch per gallon is just to guide you dosen't mean it is good all the time. You also have to consider which fish you are putting in the tank. Some of those fish are very agressive and might want more room to themselves then they are aloud.

[Simms123]

I understand that and if worse comes to worse they fight eachother for the space and the most aggressive cichlid wins. And in reality how fast do these fish grow? Doesn't it take a year or two for them to reach their full size?

[Seedy]

I DO hope you are succsesful...but I won't recomend something I feel is not responsible...
The inch per gallon rule only applies to thin body fish like tetras...not cichlids...but don't take my word for it...


SGypsyMermaid
Moderator

Registered: Aug 2002
Location: QUEENS, NY
Posts: 3317
IP: Logged

- posted: 02-26-2004 at 12:13 PM
that 1 inch per gallon rule only works for small, thin-bodied fish...it has no meaning for larger fish.

[Seedy]

Yes it can take a year or two for them to acheive full size...I have also heard of them living for 8 + years though...(and catfish/plecos even longer)...

If you really want to keep that 20 why don't you consider shell dwellers? they have personality, breed like crazy, and do great in a 20 gallon...

[Simms123]

So what am I supposed to do with these fish? Flush them down the toilet? They are very expensive! I spent a lot of time and money setting this up....

[Seedy]

One last thought...and I'll get off your back about the tank size...Would you keep a Macaw in a parrakeet cage? How about a rottweiler in an apartment? A horse in an inner city back yard?

Of course not...because these animals have certain space requirments...just like cichlids....

[Seedy]

You may be able to trade them back w/the lfs that you bought them at...You may be able to trade or sell them to someone in your area with a larger tank...You could post a thread in the Livestock forum here and see if someone in your area will trade or sell them...

OR...you could get a larger tank!

[Simms123]

Well I just said I spent quite a sum of money getting this tank together. I don't have the money to get ANOTHER tank after I just bought this one a week ago. I will take my chances as I said, I do appreciate the advice though.

[es]

Maybe ask your LFS to hold onto the fish for you and you can sell your 20G and get a bigger one?

[Seedy]

Good Luck! (and I do mean that!)

[es]

Originally posted by Seedy
Good Luck! (and I do mean that!)

what he said...

[SupermanB]

Good luck with your new tank setup. No one wants to hear that their new tank is not "good enough" and I'm sure everyone here understands that. However, you asked for advice, and these obviously more experienced people simply provided their opinion. I have one final suggestion for you though, something I noticed that wasn't mentioned at all. It's not uncommon for people to start some fish off in a tank that is fine for them to begin with, but they will outgrow, even if it's unintentional (you). I'll never forget getting my first little one inch Oscar in his 29 gallon tank years and years ago. I thought I had found the only fish tank I'd ever buy. Boy was I surprised when I found out how little I knew. I began putting away money and imagining the setups I could get to make him happy in the future. By the time he was six inches long, I had paid off a nice new 75 gallon tank I had put on lay-a-way. That's right lay-a-way... I paid 10-30 dollars a week on that tank for I don't know how long, and I'm proud of it too! He lives in that tank to this day... and he's a very happy very big boy... pushing 14 inches, something I know would not have happened in a tank that's only 12 inches wide :). So my suggestion is to simply think about keeping the fish you have and start immediately thinking for the future... the bigger the tank the more options you'll have. Then you'll have an empty 20 gallon too... didn't someone mention shell dwellers do great in a 20 :) !

[jennigypsy]

well put, superman...nice post.
Simms...just curious..is you local fish store (LFS) a big chain (Petsmart, Petco, etc??)....as you go, you'll learn to , for the most part, steer clear of these places, especially for advice on fish keeping....:)

[Seedy]

I don't trust the LFS worth a darn for advice...especially the big chain stores...very nice post superman...welcome aboard!

[jonah]

Hey SupermanB, your mystery fish topic has been moved to African Cichlid Identification.

Simms123: Sorry, but I've got to agree with the others. Your tank is going to be a problem soon. I think nearly all of us have done that at some point. Take any advice you receive from the lfs with a grain of salt. I never completely trust anybody that's trying to sell me something. You're kind of out of luck since you already have the tank and the fish.

If it were me (and I know it's not), I would try to trade, sell or return the fish and get a pair of kribs or convicts. They would go well in a 20g high, and they both have that intelligent cichlid personality that people like. The kribs are very pretty too, and they aren't rough on plants like some cichlids are. Convicts are great, easy to care for fish. Easy to sex too.

A nice colony of shell dwelling Neolamprologus multifasciatus would be really good looking. Lots of activity, very personable fish, cichlid attitudes and they'll never outgrow the tank. You can also have 10-15 in a tank with little if any hostility. They're one of my favorite Tanganyikans. You'd only have to start with a pair, they'll start their own colony.

[jonah]

Oh yeah, my first oscar started in a 10g because I didn't know better. Luckily I was able to get a 75g pretty soon afterwards. We live and we learn.

[tbrodale]

In my personal opinion if you want to have fish just like any other animal they should be taken care of just the way you would any other animal. Just because the fish is "OK" you are not letting the fish acheive its full potential and allowing it to live the longest happiest life it can. Thats just my opinion Im not trying to make anyone mad. But I love my fish and I want all fish to be taken care of as well as they should be.

I highly recomend AT LEAST a 29 gallon tank if not at least a 55 gallon tank. They really arent that expensive not to mention that walmart tanks are fairly good and will last just as long as any other tank.

[IMPALA_GQ]

DAMN 4 FISH IN A 20-I HAVE A 10 WITH ABOUT 3 BUMBLEBEES(STILL JUVIES)3 KENYI-1 ELECTRIC YELLOW-2 MBUNA-2 PLECOS-5 AFRICAN FROGS-AND ABOUT 15 LITTLE GUPPIES AS FEEDERS-I KNOW I KNOW ITS A LOT-I WILL BE GETTING A BIGGER TANK REAL REAL SOON-BUT THE 10 GALLON SERIOUSLY WILL KICK SOME ASS-LOOKS AS GOOD IF NOT BETTER THAN A 50 OR BIGGER SHOW TANK

[willsy01]

*first post, don't hurt me!!*

I'm running a small tank as well.....it's an AR380 which I believe is 45litres (10g). Living very happily together for the last 6 months I have:

1 x Iodotropheus sprengerae
3 x Labidochromis caeruleus
3 x Pseudotropheus lombardoi
1 x Maylandia callainos
2 x Maylandia estherae
1 x Melanochromis auratus (feisty by nature, but has caused NO problems thus far)
1 x Maylandia emmiltos (the boss)

The water is changed 20%-30% every week.....pH is ~8, nitrates are 0, temp barely budges from 26degrees.
These guys and gals get on like a house on fire.....but are very soon being moved to an AR620 which about 100litres (20-22g). I can't help but be concerned when I read all these posts about having to have at least a 55 or a 75 :confused:

[es]

woah that's alot for a 10G. I would say at least a 55, but bigger is always better! :)
If you can afford it go with the 75G

[skiitswitch]

wow! :D I agree with es... that's definitely alot of fish... a 40 or 55 would prob be alright... what kind of filtration do you have? Filter the bejeebus out of the tank if you can for now
Welcome to the forums though and good luck!

[willsy01]

My current tank (the AR380) looks like.....

http://vs93717.server-store.com/images/catalogue/vs93717/vs93717-gr62.jpg

I don't know the actual name of the filtering system (n00b!!), but the water is drawn up by the powerhead, dispersed by a spraybar over the filter wool, then through the matrix, through a bit of sponge to catch any other crap that makes it past the wool initially then cascades out through 8 holes and back into the tank.

The wool is changed weekly and I try and keep the filter components.....the powerhead, spray bar etc......clean as well. I've only had one issue in the 6 months it's been running and that was allowing my neighbour to feed my fish whilst I was away for 4 days......she thought it would be a treat for them to have a bit extra. I got home and the water was putrid.....so I swung into action, vacuumed the gravel, 50% water change, wool change.....everything was back to normal after a few days.

I'm just rambling now :)

[es]

*faints* and you have 12 fish in there!?!

[Seedy]

*seedy slaps es back to consciosness* WHoa....that's way too many fish in there...and that tank has very little "footprint" (cichlids need "floor" space vs "swimming" space) As much as I like the tanks asthetic apeal, it will not work for any african cichlid, save the smallest shell dwellers...If you can find Shell dwellers (mostly from lake Tang) at an lfs then I would recomend you trade your fish in for them...or get a bigger tank...

[willsy01]

Yes, only for a 2 or 3 more weeks though. New tank is cycling as I type this and is more than twice the size.

[es]

Thanks Seedy, I feel kinda bad for those fish. willsy01 how big is the new tank?

[willsy01]

New tank is 100 litres.....or about 27 US gallons. I will NOT be adding any more fish to the new tank. I'm happy with what i've got. It will have loads of caves and hidey holes for them as well.

I will admit that my LFS may have preyed on my inexperience, but joining this forum has given me the advice I need and prompted me to go and buy the new tank.

[Seedy]

27 is still mighty mighty small, but better...I run a 40gal, and that is still too small...if you still want to do cichlids willy then try to get the biggest tank you can...and BTW...I'm not a big fan of the "all-in-one" tanks like the eclipses and what you are using, usually all the components are sub-par, and often you have to replace the whole darn thing if one part breaks...so as nice as those tanks look, they just don't function that well IMO...

[Seedy]

12 or 13 cichlids is still going to be a bit much as they get bigger...I'm also a bit concerned about aggresion, you have rustys and yellow labs that are fairly docile for african cichlids mixed with some melanochromis sp and M.lombordoi (kenyi)...You may have some losses as those fish mature...

I would also add another filter to that tank...

[willsy01]

All the parts are available to buy separately.....if the powerhead dies I can buy JUST the powerhead and so forth.
I'm just getting so many different opinions now......at both ends of the scale. Some have said the new tank will be fine.....others have said it will be too small.

Might just save myself the hassle and buy a drum of water conditioner and such and convert the swimming pool into my tank.

[Seedy]

Originally posted by willsy01


Might just save myself the hassle and buy a drum of water conditioner and such and convert the swimming pool into my tank.

LOL...Yeah, one member here is looking for enough silicone to seal his basement.:rofl:

[es]

you could always fill up your bath tub

[skiitswitch]

Originally posted by es
you could always fill up your bath tub

Yeah :D a sawsall would do pretty good on the front and you could just screw some plexi on the front... A DIY tub-tank!!
:dance: :dance:

[es]

get one of those above ground pools :party: they're atleast a couple hundred gallons :rofl2:

[skiitswitch]

Originally posted by es
get one of those above ground pools :party: they're atleast a couple hundred gallons :rofl2:

hehehe... just did a quick calc... one of those cheapo 3' tall 12' diameter pools that you'd collapse the metal sides as a kid would be about 2500 gallons :D sounds good to me :lol:

[es]

DAMN! :yikes: you could buy fish everday and still not overcrowd it

[Photorah]

Originally posted by es
DAMN! :yikes: you could buy fish everday and still not overcrowd it

now es dont go given the fellow addicts ideas :sygypsy:


but cost wise 2500 gallon pool for 2,500$ or a really large custom tank just the tank not the parts for thousands more. Can you get the pools with windows?:confused:

can i fit a doughboy in the garage if i had a garage?

[Cichlovers]

Simms my man I feel where you are coming from all the way here. Relax:party: enjoy your new fishes they will be fine for a while. Your crabro won't be a menace but he will be your fastest grower and heartiest eater. Your albino is a fireball and won't be bullied. Your Kenyi is a brut too and will get big rapidly as well. The yellow labido won't grow as fast but will hold its own. It just found its spot aka territory.

My advice on your current situation. :dance: just check out the thriftys and check under pets then fish. Just around a hundred bucks should get you everything you need and a 40 gallon which is more then enough for your 4 fish. Also let your freinds know that your looking for a bigger tank. Odds are you might get hooked up with a bigger tank for free. I did, twice with a 55. I had to supply the heaters and filters but what a bargain.
So your good to go for as long as it takes to get the good deal.

As far as aggression goes. Breeding won't really factor in. Hopefully they are all males. O well if they're not but don't hydrid obvisously. Keep them well feed. Feeding is the only thing they have to fight over. Well feed fish are happy fish. Make sure you change their water in the gravel (suction) every week or two.

Let me know if you have any other questions. Like I said I pretty much went through exactly what your going through.

Peace!

[es]

Photorah sure you can have windows in the pool. They did it for the killer whale (shamoo?). And about the price, I'm sure if you shop around someone has to be selling a pool that size for a good deal :rofl2: :dance: