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View Full Version : Need help my cichlids are dying, don't know what else to do



YogisBaby
01-24-2013, 11:17 PM
2 Weeks ago I put a large (6 to 8in) pair of jaguar cichlids, 2 large jack Dempsey's,2 convicts, and 2 ice blues, oh and a corycat in my uncycled 90 gal bow front tank. It has a canister filter that I do not know much about. I know that you are suppose to cycle the tank but due to a situation out of my control that was not a option. I moved everything out of the old tank including water, except gravel, and they have slowly been dying off. I am now down to 1 jaguar, pair of jack Dempsey's and 1 convict. I have been doing 60% water changes about every 3 days. Oh and all the fish have gotten "pop eyed" and I have tried fungal treatment and antibiotics, & stress coat. I don't know what else to do!!!!!!

YogisBaby
01-25-2013, 11:04 AM
Anyone?

mixemall
01-25-2013, 11:39 AM
did u run the filter that u were using on the old tank in the new one? if you ran the old filter with pads and media then cycling wouldnt have been an issue. the bio in the old filter would cycle tank fairly quickly. if u didnt do this and u have another tank or a friend with a cycled tank u could run those used pads in you filter to cycle. (as long as water perameters are the same. my only other thought is that when the fish got moved they had to reestablish territory. the pair of dempseys could be a rough pair if trying to gain ground. this stress could be reason for suckness and death. thats just a few suggestions. hope it helps. let me know how u make out

YogisBaby
01-25-2013, 12:21 PM
I have 2 other tanks and I have moved the dirty filters out of those tanks and put them in the reef part of the tank to introduce good bacteria. The fish have never fought for territory they kinda just hid under rocks. How long does it take to cycle a large tank?

mixemall
01-25-2013, 12:50 PM
i usually put them right into the filter. depending on the gph of filter it shouldnt take long. i personally have put fish in after an hour and been all set. look at it this way if the tank is 90 gal and your filter is 360 gph (just to use a number) then all water will go through bacteria filled pads 4x an hour. if cycling us the ussue and the pads are from cycled tank then u should see a difference soon. as i said that is assuming that it is a cycling issue. if u dont see improvements in fish behavior by tomorrow then its something else. good luck. let me know

mixemall
01-25-2013, 12:55 PM
one more thing. no more water changes for now. with pads cycling the tank u will delay the process by removing cycled water. i just want to reinforce that this is my opinion and what i would do if it were my tank.

Pineapple
01-25-2013, 01:13 PM
My first question is have you checked the levels of Ammonia, Nitrites/trates? If you havent, that will give you a better idea as to where you are if your tank is still doing its "new tank syndrome". And from what mixemall said about the filter media from the old tank, his advice is good about putting it directly into the filter on the new tank instead of just setting it in the tank itself. You will use the good bacteria from the already good media much more efficiently if its in the filter than just sitting in the tank.

If/when you check your levels, let us know what they are. If they are really high, you may want to do PWC's everyday actually. I know maxemall said that doing them everyday could hurt the cycle if its still technically "cycling", but high levels will kill your fish and we want to save them by not having them sit in rediculously high levels just to wait for your tank to cycle (if it ever even would, who knows how long it could take). Yes the PWC's will slow down the cylce, but not stop it. Again, you dont want anymore fish dying if the levels are too high. Let us know where they are so we can help!

One more thing to note, putting in Aquarium salt (non iodized or rock salt works too) will help with the Pop eye. From what I know, pop eye is triggered from a bacterial infection from most scenarios. Otherwise, could just be they injured it and it swelled up, but if most/all your fish have it, safe to say you have bad bacteria getting in them because they're stressed out, making them more prone to catching illnesses. If you do put aquarium salt in your tank, be sure to follow the 1 tablespoon of salt per 5 gallons of water, making sure to completely dissolve the salt in tank water before adding it in.

mixemall
01-25-2013, 01:27 PM
i Just wanted to point out that I already stated to put them in the filter not just in tank. Also the way to fix unbalanced levels is to cycle the tank. This will happen quicker by not doing the water changes. Once cycled correctly a levels will even out. Water changes will prolong this process, Keeping levels further out of whack for a longer period of time. i could be wrong but to the best of my knowledge that's the way it works

mixemall
01-25-2013, 01:30 PM
One more point also as far as adding salt. This is a good idea however do not add all the salt at once you must do it periodically over the next few days. You do not want to dramatically alter the parameters of the water. Also some salt will raise pH level other salt lake Epson salt will make water harder just be aware of that also

Pineapple
01-25-2013, 02:31 PM
@Micemall, I do agree about the PWC's prolonging the cycle, but I was just more concerned about the fish living in water that could have a 5ppm ammonia, or nitrites. Im not stating to do daily PWC's everyday till he thinks the cycle is just done. I just think if the levels are off the chart for days on end, the fish will have no life span longer than a few days. So yes, dont do them everyday, but i think everyday would be best just until the levels are not toxically high.

And very good point about the salt, I did forget to mention that step :cape:

mixemall
01-25-2013, 02:44 PM
just a thought. when and if u decide to do water changes as pineapple has suggested. what if the water that u remove is replaced with water from your other tank. this would not hurt cycling, but also get rid of amonia. what do you think pineapple. just a thought you know?

Jeffrow
01-25-2013, 04:23 PM
:uh::nervous::yikes::eek::rolleyes::pop:

Pineapple
01-25-2013, 04:37 PM
Thats actually an awesome idea! Never wouldve even thought of that :rock:
Killing two birds with one stone for sure!

@YogisBaby, are you possibly able to maybe sacrifice some more good media from one of your other tanks and throw it in to the the new one? I just think the more good already established media, the quicker you will have a cycled tank.

mixemall
01-25-2013, 04:44 PM
i was wondering if jeffrow could elaborate?

mixemall
01-25-2013, 05:17 PM
i was just informed by a knowlegdable friend that the water from old tank actually carries no bio. so if u water change u should just use new water. the bio is in old filter as stated before, but using water from old tank at water change time makes no difference

Parrothead
01-25-2013, 05:40 PM
IF you don't own a test kit, go buy one now, not the strips, they are useless, api makes a decent one and they are not that expensive. Test your water and post your results as mentioned above, without that info it is virtually impossible to help you.

Pineapple
01-25-2013, 05:42 PM
Bah, thats unfortunate. I did not know that, but does make sense. Im sure like 90% of the bacteria is in the filters lol.

YogisBaby
01-25-2013, 05:43 PM
The reason I just put the filters in the reef part (where the canister sucks water) is because my other tanks are regular filters and not canister. I have the medium size fluval (sp?) filter but I will see if I can fit them in. An with taking water out of the other tanks I learned earlier this week the same thing about not carrying good bacteria, I thought it did that is why I put about 45 gallons out of the tank they were in into the the new tank to begin with. An the amonia and nitrates are still pretty high, but I am sure there there is a bacterial infection also I am treating with metro..something. Its a poowder, and I am actually on my way to a bigger town to get more supplies because all 3 of my pet stores are a joke where I live.

Parrothead
01-25-2013, 05:44 PM
if your ammonia is pretty high, your tank is cycling, do you mean nitrites or nitrates? Big Difference.

YogisBaby
01-25-2013, 05:45 PM
I am going to try to vacume my 44 gal tomorrow and add that to the tank also to see if that helps. Someone told me to buy the additive by seachem that causes it to rapidly cycle

YogisBaby
01-25-2013, 05:51 PM
I have nitrates noot nitrites I thought I did it will be another thing I buy tonight. An my amonia is hard to read it goes from green to purple on the chart and my water is bright blue everytime I test it. An salt I added a bunch all at once to begin. It was aquarium salt which I have never used I always have used sea salt or non idoized salt so I have not added anymore through the water changes. Please excuse my spelling and grammar errors I am doing this on my phone, sorry!

Parrothead
01-25-2013, 05:58 PM
ok, first of all, what test kit are you using, colors don't help us, numbers do, please post numbers not colors, too many different test kits out there for us to work off of colors. Help me help you.

YogisBaby
01-25-2013, 06:10 PM
Its an api and I don't have them in front of me I am on my way to a bigger city to get supplies but I plan on probably getting all new test kits since mine are a few years old. I have had cichlids for a few years and never had a problem I couldn't cure. My kids are heartbroken right now...

Jeffrow
01-25-2013, 06:14 PM
i was wondering if jeffrow could elaborate?


Sorry, couldn't help it. Your posted solutions to the OP's questions were very confusing and some outright wrong. As Parrothead has said it is impossible in the first place to try to solve the problem without first having the results of a water test.

Parrothead
01-25-2013, 06:14 PM
ok, without numbers and with your amm. doing the "color thing" it sounds like your tank is actually going through a cycle, I would be doing large water changes to reduce stress, so what if it slows down the cycle, at this point you want to do what is best for the fish and that would be the water changes. I'd start with 30 - 40 percent every other day and make sure you do your best to match the pH and temp of the make up water with what is in the tank.

mixemall
01-25-2013, 06:26 PM
please do not listen to me. apparently the 11 tanks i have running ranging from 35 to 240 gallons means i have no clue what i'm doing. these guys are un****in believable

Parrothead
01-25-2013, 06:34 PM
please do not listen to me. apparently the 11 tanks i have running ranging from 35 to 240 gallons means i have no clue what i'm doing. these guys are un****in believable


You Have PM

Jeffrow
01-25-2013, 07:02 PM
please do not listen to me. apparently the 11 tanks i have running ranging from 35 to 240 gallons means i have no clue what i'm doing. these guys are un****in believable

I said I was sorry and ment it. I didn't post to cause any trouble. You asked me to elaborate and I did. Go back and take a look at your posts. My concern was for the person in need of help, for which I did not have an answer myself. I figured someone that could provide a definate answer would chime in and he did. YogisBaby sorry for your loss, good luck with the rest, hope they will be ok.

YogisBaby
01-25-2013, 07:24 PM
I bought new testing kits I will post the actualy numbers tomorrow. I will also be adding some media from my other tanks to see if that helps. I will post more tomorrow after I redo the test. I appreciate your guys input on this. I also bought some api quick start does anybody have any experience with this?

DogWalker
01-30-2013, 08:52 PM
please do not listen to me. apparently the 11 tanks i have running ranging from 35 to 240 gallons means i have no clue what i'm doing. these guys are un****in believable

mixemall, kudos for being the first to respond and try to help but that doesn't give you exclusive rights to assist the OP... others' responses insofar as I can tell were intended to assit the OP with the situation, not to undermine you.

For the OP's benefit I'll add my 2 cents to what has already been discussed. On the assumption that the tank is indeed cycling (and this should be verified with unexpired test kits, as many have mentionned already)... Moving filters over from the old tanks will only help if the old tanks still have active bio-load in them keeping the bacteria colonies in those filters alive (fed). By bio-load we typically mean live fish (and obviously you wouldn't want to leave those fish without filtration, so in that scenario a more detailed plan would be called for). If there has been no source of amonia in those tanks for a few days or more the beneficial bacteria may have died off. Don't bother syphoning the crap from the bottom of the old tank to add to the new one, that is more likely to compound the problem than help (if there is matter there that has not finished decaying you may be adding an additional source of amonia to the new tank; at the least you would likely be adding nitrates pointlessly). If you can get hold of Seachem Prime do so, and dose every day or second day until the tank finishes cycling - this product (which is also excellent as a dechlorinator for your regular water changes) binds the amonia such that it is much less harmful to the fish but still available to the nitrifying bacteria for the cycle to proceed. I concur with the use of salt as well.

Good luck with it.

Edit: whoops - just noticed this was 5 days ago! I've been more pre-occupied by my real job than I realized. Anyhow, I hope the situation is under control.

mixemall
01-30-2013, 09:19 PM
i too have a "real job" and do not have time to deal with the arrogance on this site. as i have said before it is not as cut and dry as some in this site like to think it is. its not just me, but i seen these same few jump all iver any opinion from anyone that has a different belief than they do. i will stick with my hobby and my knowlegde and no longer be bothered with this site or the "experts" on it. good bye. happy fishkeeping.

ratherbfishnjp
01-31-2013, 07:45 AM
MIXEMALL... my god man take a pill man!! im pretty sure there IS medication for that. This isn't the first time you rubbed someone (or many) the wrong way. Everybody does not have a vandetta against you man! Im cracking up here because you have the kahones to call others arrogant when apparently the one around here who has his nose so far up in the air thinking his crap doesnt stink is you. Your making yourself look like a fool man. I dont think the forum life is for you, I mean since you know so much and everything with all your tanks and everything... maybe you should be writing a book or something and get all your expertise put down on paper! Dogwalker wasnt taking a shot at you about the job thing so relax! As I said before.. sit back, enjoy the forum for everything it offers or back off bud!

mixemall
01-31-2013, 08:44 AM
for once i'm gonna agree with you. signing off

ratherbfishnjp
01-31-2013, 09:28 AM
SEE.... look how easy that was!!! :0)

Heyguy74
01-31-2013, 10:31 AM
Alright everybody calm down.

ratherbfishnjp
01-31-2013, 10:33 AM
Its ok Heyguy, mixemall was just leaving.

SNAILOS
01-31-2013, 12:02 PM
I bought new testing kits I will post the actualy numbers tomorrow. I will also be adding some media from my other tanks to see if that helps. I will post more tomorrow after I redo the test. I appreciate your guys input on this. I also bought some api quick start does anybody have any experience with this?

Is there any udates that you can give YogisBaby? I would like to know.:)

10G Amazon River Biotope
65G Stand Finish. Now Hood
146G Custom Build Tank Under Construction

ratherbfishnjp
01-31-2013, 12:15 PM
Thank you Snailos for putting us back on subject!

SNAILOS
01-31-2013, 12:31 PM
Thank you Snailos for putting us back on subject!

Yeah Man! The heat in the kitchen was so hot I was standing outside looking in.:) lol looks like u made it.

10G Amazon River Biotope
65G Stand Finish. Now Hood
146G Custom Build Tank Under Construction

mixemall
01-31-2013, 02:58 PM
u guys are to easy !! ha

Parrothead
01-31-2013, 03:39 PM
u guys are to easy !! ha

Why do you have to be his way
I'd speak my mind here but don't want to get tossed. Grow up

metricliman
01-31-2013, 04:33 PM
u guys are to easy !! ha

I would say something nasty but then I'd be on your level. Unfortunately, it seems your posts have almost nothing to do with fishkeeping. It seems like you are only here to bash other people and make yourself feel superior. If you're so much better than all of us, then why not leave? Find a better forum.

mixemall
01-31-2013, 05:07 PM
let it go! i've attempted more than once to end this yet u guys feel the need to keep antagonizing me. i never once stated that anyone was wrong as far as opinions or advice. i only wanted to put my opinions and advice out there as well. i know you guys do not agree with me on a lot of issues in regards to fishkeeping and that is fine. however u have no right to say they are incorrect when i have seen these things work with my own eyes. i just want newbies to the hobby to understand that this is an art as well as a science. and that it is ok to try new things. we discover new things by thinking outside the box. that is a big part of what has made this hobby fun to me. i appologize for disrupting your forum i know u all have the best of intentions and a wealth of knowlegde to share(no sarchasm involved). i will now let u guys get back because i do not wish to tarnish any aspect of the hobby for anyone. have a nice night. best of luck. have fun

metricliman
01-31-2013, 05:26 PM
let it go! i've attempted more than once to end this yet u guys feel the need to keep antagonizing me.

So you decided to 'end this' by saying 'u guys are to easy'?