Help on new tank

[Fishead]

Hello, I am new to this board and new to Cichlids. I just bought a 29g long tank (I know its small, but its my beginner). I have been looking at alot of cichlid info on the net, but still have a few questions.

I Have a 29g tank, I have 2 rocks with holes for hiding, 3 plants bunched together and some slate tile that I broke and made little leaning structures.

My questions are such

What should the PH level be in the tank?

What type of "cleaner" fish can I put with cichlids, to get rid of algae and stuff - I saw Bristlenose Pleco in a poll..

How many cichlids should I have in my 29g? I was thinking 8-10? (labi's, pseud's and some melanachromis)

I live in Southern California (City called La Mirada). Anyone know a good retailer for Cichlids in the area?

Thanks

[YourPalCM]

pH, anything above 7.6, but around 8.0-8.2 is ideal. I've read that you shouldn't really worry too much about this as long as you are above 7.6. What is more important than getting a pH exactly around 8.0-8.2 is just keeping your pH steady.

Algae cleaner - Bristlenose Pleco seems to be the one most people say works the best. I don't use any, and I don't seem to get any algae. Most Cichlids are algae eaters to some degree, so either I don't get much algae naturally or my Cichlids are keeping it clean themselves. I like Catfish better anyway, so I keep cat in my tank.

How many? The ones you mentioned generally get between 4-5", so 8-10 seems just right to me. I'd stay away from the Melanachromis types though...they tend to be more aggressive than the others.

Good luck!

[Seedy]

My advice....More rocks...think "rocktropolis"....

Catfish and pl*cos do well (just watch out for the cichlids picking on the pl#cos eyes...) as far as scavengers go...I like both in a tank, but size may be a consideration in your tank...(my tank is considered small by this forums standards!)

As far as ph goes, just keep it stable above 7.8, I like to add buffers formulated specifically for the lake I will be keeping fish from...(but you don't have to)

There was a killer fish store on Lake Ave. in Pasadena CA. It was owned by an Asian family and they got their fish shipped straight to LAX airport...They were very knowledgeable and had a lot of very rare and unusual fish...I remember that they were always waiting for their next batches to clear customs! I can not remember their name though...try the phone book or 411

For the tank size....Have you thought about shell dwellers? They have a nice look to them...(and can be lucrative $$$ wise )

For a traditional mbuna or peacock tank...start with 5 cichlids and a bottom feeder and work up to around 7-9 cichlids and maybe 2 scavengers... I would say 1m to 2 or 3 females, and try to go for smaller/slower growing fish P.demasoni is a good example of a slow grower...

Good luck!!

[Fishead]

thanks for the tips. I have been looking for rocks all over, I bought a few texas holey rocks, and I have other rocks along with some slate too. I know 29g is small for this forum, I would like to get a 150 to 200g tank in the future, but you gotta start small =)

ANGELS TROPICAL FISH
847 N LAKE AVE, PASADENA, CA 91104
Phone: (626) 798-3473

that sound like the one Seedy?

[Seedy]

YES!!!thats the one!

[Seedy]

If you do make the drive to Pasadena, also check out Steve's Pet Store, it also should still be on Lake Ave....(I used to work their in High School) Say "hi" to Carrie, she should be the manager/owner...

[Fishead]

my tank is cycling still.. but I will definately go to pasadena to check it out, I have a friend or 2 in that town.. plus its a great party place on weekends =) (old town that is)

thanks for the info bud

[Seedy]

Originally posted by Fishead
I know 29g is small for this forum, I would like to get a 150 to 200g tank in the future

:ok: ME Too!

[Fishead]

its kinda weird.. I checked all my levels today.. ammonia was at 0, ph 8.0, nitrate 0, and GH 14. I have only had the tank up for 2 days. In everything I read, that is how my tank should be when its done cycling. I think I will let it still cycle for the alotted time still. what do you all think?

[Seedy]

IMO you really have to have fish in a tank to cycle it! Some will disagree though...It's a good idea to let it run fishless for a week though....

[jennigypsy]

Add the fish slowly if possible ( try it 1st with say, 3 fish...wait a few days, check the levels..if all's well, go ahead & add some more)

[gusgus]

Just for the sake of adding another anecdote,
I had a problem for a while when cycling my tank where with nothing but rock, sand and water it tested positive for ammonia and nitrites. I even tried Amquel+ and it would adjust for a day then show traces again. The LFS said it was OC (Orange county) water and that I was due for a long cycle unless I buffered the water down (OC water is over 8.0 from the tap) and raised the temperature (still not sure what that would have accomplished).
Another forum member recommended I put some fish in.
So I added some danios and the ammonia peaked then dropped, the nitrites soon became non-existent and the danios are now in a coworkers tank living and enjoying life. I think what helped my tank cycle so fast was the fact that on my 30 gal I have enough bacteria bed surface to handle a 100gal tank. Once it got fed some real quantity of ammonia it just took off. I'm not saying fish is definitely the way to go, using pure ammonia would probably have accomplished the same thing but I'm not sure where I'd get ammonia without any of the harmful additives.

[Fishead]

yeah, I am gonna go get some fish on sunday to get it movin.

[SGypsyMermaid]

Originally posted by Seedy
IMO you really have to have fish in a tank to cycle it! Some will disagree though...It's a good idea to let it run fishless for a week though....

seedy, that's not just your opinion--it's a fact! no cycling occurs in a tank with no living organisms(fish, snails, etc) in it, unless you are using the "fishless cycling" method which entails adding specific amounts of ammonia to the tank to feed the bacteria. there seems to be some ongoing confusion on this point. running an empty tank for any period of time does NOT cycle it.

[SGypsyMermaid]

http://cichlidforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3116

[Seedy]

it's a fact! no cycling occurs in a tank with no living organisms(fish, snails, etc) in it, unless you are using the "fishless cycling" method

True...unless your water has chloramine in it...Water treatments will break the chlorine and ammonia bond, you can actually see the ammonia levels with a test kit.

On a new tank, running w/out fish is probably not very helpfull, but if you are like me and re-setting up a tank that had been used before and left dormat for a few years, then you allready have some biological material in the tank (I intentionally don't clean a tank very well when I tear it down...) and that combined with the amonia from the chloramine, should provide enough ammonia in the tank to "start the cycle"....

[SGypsyMermaid]

Originally posted by Seedy
True...unless your water has chloramine in it...Water treatments will break the chlorine and ammonia bond, you can actually see the ammonia levels with a test kit.

On a new tank, running w/out fish is probably not very helpfull, but if you are like me and re-setting up a tank that had been used before and left dormat for a few years, then you allready have some biological material in the tank (I intentionally don't clean a tank very well when I tear it down...) and that combined with the amonia from the chloramine, should provide enough ammonia in the tank to "start the cycle"....

you would have to do those "water treatments" every day in order to keep the bacteria fed--otherwise they would start to die off.

even though you don't clean your tank thoroughly and there is some biological material left in in, if you are not feeding that bacteria on a regular basis, it will die off--there won't be enough to make a difference. further, "starting the cycle" is not sufficient, the cycling must be maintained and in order to be maintained, the bacteria must be fed.