sick fish please help

[laserdemon]

I have a cichlid tank and every week i loose one to two fish. Im not sure whats going on. They lay on the bottom of the tank alive for a few hours and then die. These fish have been in the tank for about a month. The tank cycled for around a month before i put in the fish. I have some live java moss, 2 amazon sword plants. I have a 55gal tank, over 500gal per hour filteration. One dual bio wheel 330 gal/h, one HOT magnium 250 and a 170 biowheel filter. 3 air bars with 2 seperate pumps. Plenty of hiding spots for the fish. Crushed coral gravel. Proper lighting. between 8.2ph and 8.4ph, nitrite 0 ppm. General Hardness is 161.1, ammonia is between 0ppm to .25ppm. Temperature is at 80 degrees. I do add salt to the tank. Im going to do a 25% change tomorrow, I did a 25% about 3 weeks ago.

The fish all look fine, then after i leave for a few hours and check on them i find one on its side gasping at the bottom of the tank. It seems to be really quick as the fish was just swimming and eating a few hours later.

I have 2 candy parrots in another tank that seem to be doing fine. in fact i think that they are going to spawn soon. There are a few surviving guppies in each tank.(less than 10)

I cant find the problem to save my life. Currently there are 2 electric blues, 1 aratius, 2 albino zebras and 2 blue cichilds. The largest is the aratius at around 4 inches, the rest are between 1 and 2 inches. I have lost 2 small aratius, 1 albino zebra(dieing as we speak) and one common cichlid. There are also 2 placo's in the tank. Some snails, common type and some MTS.

I feed a mixture of live guppies, flakes and frozen brine shrimp. I do add alage discs for the placos.

[the209jungalist]

What are MTS? I'm assuming it is a living creature, just clueless on that term probably.
Are you by chance just dumping the fish straight into your tank without floating the bag for 20-30 min to let the temperatures even out. (is bag water temp the same as tank water temp?)
Do you dump your bag water into your tank when you release your fish rather than netting your fish then releasing. Doing so will fluctuate pH levels in your tank.
If your tank pH is at 8.2, was the fish you bought kept in water with that high of a pH level? Could be but probably is not, maybe your fish went into pH shock. Try floating your bag then gradually letting out bag water to sink and adding in tank water to bag to get your fish used to new pH level.
Doubt this one but how much salt do you have in your tank? Same thing as above.

I'm just brainstorming the obvious because I can't see anything else as being a problem, tank seems healthy.

Hope I helped maybe. :wink:

[the209jungalist]

Oh speaking of the obvious....... you do rearrange your tank decorations when you add new fish to your tank right? If you are not then you have about a 90% chance that your fish that are dying because they are being attacked by the other inhabitants living in your tank already. Africans are extremely territorial so if you have fish in there and don't change things up when you add your new fish -you will lose fish.
For example you have a rock with a hole in it, you have a "yellow" fish that claims that rock and that hole as his, so when you add your new "blue" fish to the tank, when "blue" fish swims by that rock with the hole in it and decides to look at the view from inside the hole in that rock you are going to have a very pissed off "yellow" fish. Your "yellow" fish is going to swim after "blue" fish and shoo him away, whether "blue" fish takes the hint or not "yellow" fish will continue to harass "blue" fish until the point is made.
Signs that your fish were attacked and possibly dying from it are missing tail and/or fins, white on the sides of your fish -usually from being hit on their lateral lines which is like taking a hit to your spinal cord, white tuffs where your fish was attacked and now has fungus growing from a infection.


So I think I explained this quite well.... maybe this should be added to a beginners page! Hee, hee! :razz:

(I added that because i'm just complementing myself in my own post) :ok:

[2petuniasmom]

I would step up your water changes. It is often the cheapest and best medicine for a large array of problems. 25% every three weeks is not enough IMHO.

What are your nitrate levels? I change water when they approach 40 ppm. Ideally, I like 20 or less. If that means changing the water more than once a week, I do. I usually change out about 30% each time.

I also maintain my mom's 75g. The fish get fed pretty heavily at her house and I find they need much larger water changes to keep the nitrates down if I change water only once a week. Her nitrates are usually around 80 at weeks end. This is from the uneaten food fouling the water. I change around 50%. I really should do a midweek water change at her house and maybe a little less. It would keep a more steady and improved water quality with less swings from yucky water to good water - I think that can be very hard on fish. I just haven't found the time to get there and do it mid week.

My rule of thumb for years has been; when in question, change the water. It can't hurt :)

[laserdemon]

Thanks for the responces. I am going to test the nitrate today and ill get back. All these fish were added about a month ago, and they were added within 3 days of each other. I had to travel around and find the fish i wanted. No Petsmart fish here. There are no signs of damage to any of the fish i have lost. I thought the same thing. But im not seeing any attacks going on and no damage to the sick fish. Ill step up on the water changes.

MTS=Maylasian trumpet snails.

[YourPalCM]

As someone else mentioned, it could be the NitrAtes. A lot of people ignore their Nitrates because they are less of a problem than the Ammonia or the NitItes. But they are only less of a problem if you are changing your water with enough frequency. Changing of the water is the only way to rid the tank of the NitrAtes.

Everything else in your tank seems fine, so that would be my first guess - the NitrAtes. I also don't think one 25% change every 3 weeks is enough. 25% every week would be ideal.

[laserdemon]

My nitrates are below 40ppm, which is acceptable from what ive read. So i guess im going to install the web cam and make sure my aratius is not killing them.

[Vip]

i get that problem with inbred fish, after a while water gets to the brain and thats it, they die, i fed my mollie who was stronge as a ox, then 20mins later it was gasping at the bottom of the tank and died.

[2petuniasmom]

Electronic observation of fish :) You gotta love technology. Great idea!

[YourPalCM]

Originally posted by 2petuniasmom
Electronic observation of fish :) You gotta love technology. Great idea!

That is a good idea. I wanted to put a tank here in my office at work, but I was told that live animals are not allowed. (They didn't find it amusing when I then requested DEAD animals. Turns out live AND dead animals are both against company rules.) So maybe I'll set up a webcam to my tank at home, then I can just watch my own fish on my computer here at work!

:dance: :rofl: :rofl2: :ok:

[laserdemon]

This will keep you happy until i get mine up

http://fishvoyeur.com/

[2petuniasmom]

COOL!!!!!!

[SGypsyMermaid]

Originally posted by laserdemon
The tank cycled for around a month before i put in the fish.

a tank without fish cannot cycle, unless you use the "fishless cycling" method. if your tank had cycled, your ammonia readings would be at 0. probably, the plants are accounting for the ammonia readings not being higher. if you do weekly water changes, then your plants may be able to keep up with the ammonia production. you have to get rid of all traces of ammonia.

[jennigypsy]

I agree with the water change advice....
25-30% weekly should be a standard....like petunia said, if they're being fed heavily, a little more. (50% water changes)

I'm not pointing this statement to anyone in particular, just in general...It doesn't make sense to me that people pay all this money for their tank & quality fish...then don't change the water regularly (for whatever reason), then when the fish are sick, they spend $ on medicine. A quick fix...

[laserdemon]

I actually used a cycling agent before I put fish in.

[laserdemon]

I just found the aratus attacking another fish. He has since been moved to another tank. I think this was my problem. Thanks for the help.

[YourPalCM]

Originally posted by laserdemon
I just found the aratus attacking another fish. He has since been moved to another tank. I think this was my problem. Thanks for the help.

When in doubt, blame the Auratus. Cool looking fish, but they are just nasty.