So, maybe Hybrids aren't all bad....

[Chromedome]

Just finished reading two very interesting articles in the October, 2011, Cichlid News. The first was about Melanochromis brevis, and the upshot is that the species is now suspected of being the result of natural hybridization between one or more Melanochromis species and Pseudotropheus williamsi. It is deeper bodied than any other of the genus, and has a reversed color pattern that is closer to Ps. williamsi.

This was followed by an article by Martin Geerts, which suggests that earlier observers who claimed that hybrids were not occurring in wild populations of Victorian Cichlids were simply not recognizing the hybrids for what they were. He also mentions that genetic research suggests that a number of species in Lake Malawi are the result of multiple hybridizations! This is not to say they are currently hybridizing in nature, but that they did so in the early history of the lake, and could still be doing so.

My opinion is that, while these hybridizations occur easily among the Haplochromine species, I don't believe they are as easy, or as common, among other groups of Cichlids. There is also an article about Discus genetics in the same issue, written by Dr. Wayne Leibel. Where the africans were thrown together in lakes, the Discus were isolated into different river systems, and the current debate is whether they are one species evolving into several, or already multiple species from the one original line. I consider this to be the more normal means of speciation, and much more common than hybridization for the evolution of species. If you get the magazine and have read the articles, I'd be interested in hearing opinions. Actually, if you haven't read the articles, I'd love to hear other comments, too!

[Regalblue]

Aren't all of the Malawi species belived to have evolved from one species?
I have always thought that over the evolution of the lake, that some hybridization has to have occurred.

[Chromedome]

Genetic analysis suggests that Malawian cichlid flock is derived from 5 species, according to the article by Geerts. Basically, each river that emptied into the lake when it was new supplied fish, which spread out and started evolving to fit new niches, but also interbred when they met in the lake. A lot of it is still normal evolution, but the new theory is that hybridization was much more prevalent than previously thought.

[Regalblue]

See I've always thought that myself. But, that's mother nature.
The part that I like about the article, you posted about, is how science is able to tell which species interbred to create a certain species.
The problem with the world knowing which interbred is - some idiot will be creating homegrown species& passing them off as pure.

[Candy]

I haven't read the article, but after observing my female labs mating with almost anything in the mbuna tank, I can't believe it hasn't happened at some time in the natural environment. I had a mixed Vic / Mbuna tank until I caught the female pundamilla nyeri being seriously courted by a lab sp hongi, that was the end of that grouping. I am separating everything now into separate lakes, but I still suspect that lone males will try to mate with other species if the female is willing. Interesting that some of the pure species may have started out that way.

[vinman]

Just finished reading two very interesting articles in the October, 2011, Cichlid News. The first was about Melanochromis brevis, and the upshot is that the species is now suspected of being the result of natural hybridization between one or more Melanochromis species and Pseudotropheus williamsi. It is deeper bodied than any other of the genus, and has a reversed color pattern that is closer to Ps. williamsi.

This was followed by an article by Martin Geerts, which suggests that earlier observers who claimed that hybrids were not occurring in wild populations of Victorian Cichlids were simply not recognizing the hybrids for what they were. He also mentions that genetic research suggests that a number of species in Lake Malawi are the result of multiple hybridizations! This is not to say they are currently hybridizing in nature, but that they did so in the early history of the lake, and could still be doing so.

My opinion is that, while these hybridizations occur easily among the Haplochromine species, I don't believe they are as easy, or as common, among other groups of Cichlids. There is also an article about Discus genetics in the same issue, written by Dr. Wayne Leibel. Where the africans were thrown together in lakes, the Discus were isolated into different river systems, and the current debate is whether they are one species evolving into several, or already multiple species from the one original line. I consider this to be the more normal means of speciation, and much more common than hybridization for the evolution of species. If you get the magazine and have read the articles, I'd be interested in hearing opinions. Actually, if you haven't read the articles, I'd love to hear other comments, too!

I have always felt this about Lake Malawi cichlids . I also wondered being different colored Discus come from different places are they all different subspecies.

[TwistedSister]

On Discus, there was an article in this issue of Cichlid News, detailing why some of the basic ocuring wild Discus might be actual subspecies. I don't recall it very well, I sorta glanced at it, but I believe it came to the conclusion that there is about 4 different varieties. However, it did also have pictures of naturally ocuring hybrids too.

[Narwhal72]

I read through the discus article. I think the conclusion was that discus are a species in the process of speciation and are neither the ancestral species nor are they the descendant species yet. This is a fish in the process of going from one to 3-4 different species. Very interesting reading on all the DNA testing that has been done on this "species" through the years.

If your a science geek like me that is.

Andy

[vinman]

Really none of this is surprising. It is just nice to know where they stand as a species. I think when you look at most animals they are in the proses of evolution. Very few spices have not changed in millions of years. Most life is still genetically mutating. The discus are like humans. We were all in the process of becoming different subspecies or species . If it was not for the fact we overcame any natural boundaries that separated us and by raiding each other countries and villages and sharing DNA by voluntary or by force we would have been a tad more separated genetically and closer to becoming a lot more different from each other. Just like the discus are today.