Do any of you....

[Boilermaker]

Do any of you think the market for cichlids is getting saturated? Don't get me wrong I love all the new species coming out of the African Lakes, but theres gotta be an end someday to new cichlids.

Seems by the time you get that new cichlid to breed their already old news. I remember(barely) 8) the late 80s early 90s my Electric Yellow fry went for 3.00 to 5.00 a piece, I read an article that said there are more Electric (lab.) Yellows in aquariums than in the lake.

I've seen it with the sports cards in recent years there is so much of it that its gonna be worth practicaly nothing.

Whats your view?

[SGypsyMermaid]

well,i sure hope that becomes true for the victorians!!--then we can re-stock the lake! :D

[chennes]

[quote:b6a6adf1d2="Boilermaker"]I read an article that said there are more Electric (lab.) Yellows in aquariums than in the lake.[/quote:b6a6adf1d2]

Hardly surprising, given the rate at which they breed! It seems like every time I turn my back she's gone and spawned again! :)

Chris

[Boilermaker]

I would like to resurrect this thread. What does everyone think of market saturation?
SGypsy you would think someone would of kept the Victorians from going extinct?, seems quite often at that other forum someone mentions another one is extinct.
I remember when I first got into the hobby, Shedd Aquarium in Chicago had a huge Victorian Exhibit so they wouldn't go extinct, and this was supposed to be a worldwide effort?

[SGypsyMermaid]

i think that the introduction of the nile perch into lake victoria was an irreversible error--once it was done, there was no turning back--so the only thing that could be done is what's being done, now--propagation of captive populations. the nile perch is still going strong. some thought that their numbers would drop as the cichlid populations that they were feeding on dropped, but instead, the cichlids natural prey had population explosions. the prawn, for instance, are present in much greater numbers, so the perch supplement their cichlid diet with shrimp!

[Cichlid Jeans]

[quote:078db8c920="Boilermaker"]I remember when I first got into the hobby, Shedd Aquarium in Chicago had a huge Victorian Exhibit so they wouldn't go extinct, and this was supposed to be a worldwide effort?[/quote:078db8c920]
The preservation of fish in aquaria will have no impact on the extinction rate for Victoria's cichlids. The lake is not capable of supporting the extinct species, and can never be rehabilitated.

[Scotty]

Something I recently read stated that things are getting so bad in Lake Victoria that there's the possibility of it going completely anoxic, killing everything in the lake. I agree with those who believe that "theres no going back" for Lake Victoria. Even if by some miracle they cleaned it up, the wonderful ability of these fish to rapidy speciate would mean that you would have to simultaneously replace every species, in the right place, at the right quantity to restore the balance. Sadly, this is obviously impossible.

I really love my "Vics" though. For me keeping the remaining species alive, and genetically pure, is enough of a means to and end itself. I feel that's is worth doing even though the chances of fixing the lake are slim to none. To that end, I keep all mine in single (Hap.) species setups, and try to aquire unrelated stock to add to my colonies.

I was thinking about the whole saturation issue and IMHO there are both good and bad sides to this.


Pros: This is great for preserving the gene pool, and lots of fish means that they will stay inexpensive and readily available. This will attract even more people to them and further deccrease the likelyhood that they will ever permanantly disappear.

Cons: More people breeding them means more possibilities for unintentional, and intentional :x Hybrids. The bewildering array of new imports and existing species can be overwhelming for new hobbyists. Too many shiny new species also means that a lot of "old favorites" will become passe' and disappear from the hobby. I've seen this happen over the years. Unfortunately, these days, it might not be so simple as going back and collecting more wild ones when they become "chic" again. Comments anyone.....my fingers are tired.......Scott 8)

[Cichlid Jeans]

Great post, Scotty. I don't agree with the "Pro" point you made about on passing on fry:
[quote:9f68f1554c="Scotty"]Pros: This is great for preserving the gene pool, and lots of fish means that they will stay inexpensive and readily available. This will attract even more people to them and further deccrease the likelyhood that they will ever permanantly disappear.[/quote:9f68f1554c]
I always assume that any young fish you buy from a single breeder or LFS are siblings. And I'll bet dollars to donuts that the fish of any one species in most hobbyists' tanks came from a single buying trip.

Matings between siblings produce genetically limited fry. These fry should be food and nothing else. Somebody gets 6 or 8 of them and, with best intentions, inbreeds them again. This isn't doing anything for the genepool.

Passing on the fry of single-source pairs isn't doing anyone any good. There are so incredibly many deformed fish around. The Labs and Leleupis in your LFS are probably perfect examples of this, not to mention the "Mixed African Cichlids, $2.49 each."

[Boilermaker]

Thanks for everyones comments and clarifacation on the Victorians.
I still want to know if you think new species are being introduced to fast?
Or do you think it will come full circle(cycle) example: Crytocara Moori Blue Dolphin, Proto.,Copadichromis, etc...?

[Scotty]

Thanks for the feedback on my post Cichlidjeans :wink: I agree with you about too many hobbyists being irresponsible breeders, and added that on the con side. The point I was going for on the pro side, was that overall, the larger the population, the larger the available gene pool, which is a good thing (if properly utilized, that is :? )


I always make an effort to add genetic diversity to my breeders, and have found that it is well worth the effort. I purchased two P. pulchers (Kribs) for my planted tank about four years ago. I bought the male locally, and the female a few months later from a different source. The difference in color, quality and health of their young from prior experiences breeding this fish was dramatic. After years of following the conventional sibling breeding methods that a lot of texts on cichlids still recommend, I didn't realize that a good percentage of the young having bent spines, malformed fins etc.. was "not" normal. When the pair got past thier prime, I saved only one of the best females, and got another, unrelated male. I'm on the third generation now and usually let nature take it's course in the tank until predation knocks the spawn down to about 25. I then pull these out for growout, and almost never have to cull them further.

I think a lot of people go for quantity over quality until they realize that they're "not" going to be able to retire by breeding those Convicts :roll: Personally, I'd rather trade 10 or 20 quality fish for something I want, than sell 100 crappy inbred fish for a couple of bucks. It's great to hear back from people months later telling you how beautiful your fish are when they start coloring up.

[Scotty]

Boilermaker- Yes, I do think it's too much too fast. Now it seems it's Lake Borombe they're draining :roll: I guess as long as people are willing to pay ridiculous prices to have the "new" fish, they'll keep exporting them as fast as they can find them....sigh :?