Super Ich or what?

[rsmo]

:shock: :? Got a question! Have a tank full of cichlids, they have been scratching for over a month. Have been treating them for ich and so forth since 9-06. Could never see any signs of external parasites. So far I've used Coppersafe, Maracyn, Tank buddies, Salt at the rate of 1 rounded tablespoon per ten gallons, and now Paragon II, and quess what ! Going into the 4 day of using the Paragon II, I now am starting to see ich on my fish. How is this possible? The Paragon was sold as the "really strong stuff." "So strong there has been talk of taking it off of the market." So as I was told. So now i want to go back to my old reliable Nox-Ich. used it years ago, and had great succes with it. Also really clears up the water.
So now the Paragon said not to use other chemicals with it, so how do I get it out so I can change chemicals before the ich gets to far along and not stress out the fish, with massive water changes? If anyone has a clue as how to kill this Super Ich please tell me, or am i missing something thats is causing this?
Thanks RSmo

[Overawed]

Hmmm, what are the water conditions? Temperature? Did you take the activated carbon out? I find Aquarisol works well against ich outbreaks.

[SGypsyMermaid]

one of the forum members, i think nyassae man, says raise the temp to about 85 degrees and add salt(about 1tblspn per 5 gallons) this should kill the ick and will not interact with the meds that are in your tank.

[fredzebra]

sounds like good advice by nyassae man. but seems to me that it would be good to remove all the fish to a temporary tank with the 85 degree "salt water". that way, the free-swimming ich in the original tank will die due to not having a host to feed off of. Also, that would give you a chance to clean up the original tank.

[Rudy]

Actually the point of the salt is that the free swimming ich cannot attached. The temp speeds up the life cycle, the salt makes it difficult to reattach and drops the stress rate of the fish making it less susceptible. I wouldn't bother removing the fish. The only thing I would suggest making sure that your tank is heavily oxygenated. keep in mind that this takes a bit longer than meds. 7-10 days/.

[SGypsyMermaid]

also, what's your water changing schedule like? not overfeeding? vacuuming substrate? perhaps a bacterial problem?

[rsmo]

:D Thanks for the replies. Had ich awhile back treated it and thought it was gone. Fish started scratching about six weeks ago and have'nt stopped. When I watch them several are sure to be scratching. Seems like they are scratching their head or gill areas. quick run down on what I've tried in the last month. coppersafe, salt, maracide, paragon II, in the fourth day of paragon thought i'd seen some spots. So did a 50% water change and started maracide and maracyn -two at the same time today is the second day and fish still scracthing, I went right from paragon and salt right into this. fish seem to shake and dart when scratching some might even look like shimming. They have been under constent treatment for almost the last month. lost my first fish ( RED PEACOCK )since starting Africans about 12 weeks ago. have about 50 in a 120 gal. The fish are starting to stress out the peacock was chewed up yesterday. If this don't work don't know what to do next. But I think I"M gonna lay off after this and let things settle down.
ANSWERS TO YOUR QUESTIONS:
Vacuum subsrate at least once a month.
Water change 7-10 days 50%
Don't think I'm over feeding as the food is gone in 1-2 minutes or less.
Really can't move fish to the 55 as the tank has native fish in it for my son.
Water temp 81-82 degrees.
Don't remove thecarbon as the meds say continue noraml filtration if carbon is 5 days old or older.

While sorry for being so long but THANKS :) for the replies and anything else you can think of would be GREATLY APPRECIATED.

[Hongi]

Sounds like you may be overmedicating your fish. I would give them a break. There are other factors that cause scratching besides Ick. Changes in Ph due to water changes. Changes in temperature, improper temperature and STRESS. Which it sounds like theyve had alot of swimming around in a tank full of chemicals for a month. I think you should stop medicating if you don't see any spots and they arent scratching to the point of injury. Also it's normal for Cichlids to scratch ocassionally. Just my $.02!