New Tank

[Chet]

Well, I got a 30 gallon tank today from a coworker. I think I've decided what to put in it, but thought I'd ask the forums opinion. I'm planning on a sand substrate, with some plants in the corners, a group of 10 tiger barbs, 10 giant danios, and then I'll get some shells and, you guessed it, some shelldwellers. I was thinking a group of 6 shellies, probably N. Similis if I can get them. How's that sound?

At some point this tank may have to double as a growout tank for some Vic Haps. Will that be a problem?

[SGypsyMermaid]

sounds like a plan--including the idea of using the tank to grow out vics. the only thing that i'm not sure about is the shellies--do the similis play well with each other? i know that some of the shellies have to be restricted to 1 pair per tank, but i'm not familiar with the similis.

[Chet]

I'm not really sure about the similis either. That's part of the input I was looking for. I know the occelatus are hyper-aggressive, but similis is one of the species cichlidrecipe recommends for a 10 gallon. I've never seen one in a tank before, but all the pics I've seen of them are real sweet looking.

Do you think I could grow out 10 or so Vic fry in there also? How long could they stay in the tank without trouble?

[SGypsyMermaid]

i looked it up--you can keep similis in groups. i think that you would have to move the haps once they get to about two inches, but i'm not positive. about 10 of them should be no problem.

[Cichlid Jeans]

I think the N. similus will find it tough to get a decent meal in the stocking you've planned. They'll never venture far from the shells, and the upper water fish -- particularly the barbs -- won't let much food get down to them. If you see them more than an inch or two from the shells, they're probably starving to death! Ocellatus have an advantage in this regard: if they get really hungry, they'll take a bite out of anything swimming nearby. But the rest of the shellies are a shy, retiring lot.

[SGypsyMermaid]

so do you recommend keeping shellies in species tanks, only? thanks for the voice of experience--scotty spoke truly when he said that some of the best info resides in the heads of experienced aquarists!

[Scotty]

Hey All 8) I keep N. Brevis and N. calliurus in my 70 gal with some rough, and fast moving cutomers. There are Haps, Lelupis, Julies and rainbows. You can make it work with shellies, but need to pay them a bit more attn at feeding time, especially when you first add them. I purposely pointed the outflow of my wet/dry filter down at a 45 degree angle. I toss some food in the corner, and when the rainbows and lelupis hit it (about .00001 of a second after I drop it :wink: ) I add more right by the outflow, which blows a cloud of food right to the shellies. They've been getting bolder as they get older. The Brevis now come right up to the surface (it's a 20" deep tank), and the Calliurus come up about halfway, and get a good share too 8) Once they get settled in, Africans seem really good at dropping all feuds and heirarchy issues until the last flake gets snapped up! The only thing I'm not sure about is the Tiger Barbs, but if you try it, post back with the results 8)

[Cichlid Jeans]

There's lots written on that point: some says species tank only, some say you can combine them with other small tangs in 50g or so.

My own experience was with N. brevis and juvenile J. gombi's in a small tank, which was a trainwreck. The gombi's took over one of the shells, and the evicted male brevis died of stress. A bigger tank or other tang species might have worked out -- I think I was trying to do too much in too little space.

I now have the brevis "alone" in a 10g. Of course, they're never alone, and when there are other occupants (like fry grow-outs or impulse purchases) I try to deposit bloodworms right in Mrs. Brevis' shell, which works fine. Mr. Brevis will chase food a few inches -- or at least he used to: last week I found him on the shelf behind the tank. Gotta get a top for that thing.

That's pretty well the limit of my experience.

[Cichlid Jeans]

The Brevis now come right up to the surface (it's a 20" deep tank)...

Uh oh. Looks like I've been generalizing from too-limited experience. :oops: I'm glad you posted that. How big is the tank you've got them in?

[Chet]

Alright, I've got 4 tiger barbs and 5 giant danios that need a new home. (I guess I could always put them in my Jag tank. :twisted: ) I am interested in some shellies, I also like the tret, and will want to grow out some vics. I am also open to just about anything when it comes right down to it. What would ya'll recommend for my new 30? It will most likely be in my office, so I want something that is enjoyable to watch, but not too terribly difficult to care for.

[Scotty]

Hey- 8) You're not generalizing, your adding your, different experience, to the discussion. With the intelligence of Africans, and the many different tank sizes and configurations, it's not surprising that people will get different results. I suspect that I'm having a bit more luck for two reasons. First, I'm working with a 70 gallon tank, which makes life easier :wink: Also, I already had the fish, and knew from the beginning what I wanted to put in it. This allowed me to set it up specifically for this mix. I have a sloping rock wall that is tall in one corner and recedes down to nothing about 18" from the opposite side. The rock free area is set up as a "littoral zone" and is loaded with shells. I used pics of the lake to set up where two habitats butt up against each other, and species overlap somewhat. The shellies hang in the littoral zone, the Julies, Lelupis, and haps like the rock wall, and the submissive cichlids mingle up top amongst the rainbows, which allows them to avoid getting abused for the most part. It's working pretty well so far.

[BadAndy]

I've kept n. multifasciatus in a 55 with a mix of tanganyika and malawi cichlids and they held their own when feeding time came. I didn't have really aggressive fish, though. i had 3 labidochromis caeruleus, 4 neolamprologous brichiardi, 2 electric blue haps, and 4 nelomprologous multifasciatus. My shellies ate but they didn't spend a lot of time in their shells (the n. brichiardi chased them out) until I moved them to their own 10 gallon and now they like to get busy all the time. These fish were all juveniles except the shellies. N. multifasciatus are the smallest shell dweller - the males only get about 1.5" and the females get to be about .75". The male was right at the top with the other fish and the females ventured up behind him and got what fell through. N. multi's are a colony breeder (or so i've read) and it is said that two males will live shell by shell without any problems. I don't have any male fry large enough to contend with my dominant male so i can't confirm that yet but I will be able to eventually. i have no experience with n. similis but I think the n. multi's might be an option.

BadAndy

[Rudy]

Thought I would chime in here for my 2 cents.

I tried to put one pair my brevis in my 90 with a bunch of africans. The brevis the next day were gone. I thought that was stupid mistake until I went to clean the gravel a week later and found them both hiding in a plant base and skinny as can be. Someone took them out of their shell. Then I got some gold occelatus for my 90. The occelatus to this day do not take any crap from any one. They are now in my 180 with a lot of semi aggressive fish and are little ass kickers. So in my opinion it depends on the fish.

I then put my brevis back in the 10 gallon with some glow light tetras and they were fine. Then one day one died. No reason I could see. I tried to get one more female but ended up getting a different species of sunspot. My previous were Ikola variety. They new female is much more aggressive and secondly goes to the top for food where the others don't go to far from their shells.

So don't count the Brevis out.

I am going to get some similis for the other side of my 180 so I will let you know how they do.

[Cichlid Jeans]

My pair were sunspot brevis, and my experience is consistent with your original pair. Perhaps they are specially "retiring" in nature compared to others.
:shock:

[Rudy]

Except the new one was sunspot as well. Just a different variant.

Maybe you and I got the same variant N. Brevis Sunspot (boring variety) :lol:

I shouldn't say that I like them just the same,.