Water Conditions

[JonZeigler]

Hay guys! It's me again.
I was reading some of the other posts and I was wondering about proper water treatment. First, I don't change my water every week. About a 1/5 of it evaporates over a two - three week period. Around that time I will vacumn and water change about 1/4 of the tank (I have a 20 gal). I was concerned about stress; thats Y I don't change so often. Second, I keep reading about ph (suggestion is 8.0 - 8.2 ph). I have Guppies in a ten gal (the facet water is about 7.2 ph, I think, which is good for them). I never really checked ph in Cichlid tank, but is a 7.5 or 7.7 OK; and nothing is mentioned about Ammonia, which is of concern to the Guppies. My Cichlid's seem to filter the gravel by themselves. Thirdly, I use salt, though not all the time. I use "Seachem"'s Cichlid Lake Salt, and Live Bearer / Brackish Aquarium Salt. Should I add everytime I do a water change/add. I have the GH and KH for the hardness test, and NH 3 & 4 for the Ammonia test. I have to pick up another the ph kit. As I said before, when I move I am purchasing a 50 gal, and I want to start out on the right track. Is temperature a factor also?. I sorry about all the questions. I have been trying to get it righ for a while. All suggestions are welcome.
PS. Has anyone figured out how to tell the female from the male Red Zebra, I still looking.

[Maingano]

Hi Jon,

Water changing every couple of weeks is probably ok and the amount your doing is enough, i prefer to do a quarter water change weekly.

As your water evaporates it will naturally become harder which cichlids love. But also add some aquarium salts with every water change, the more salt the harder the water will be. Salt also help keep the water clean.

I keep my ph at roughly 7.2 or so, just nice and blue this works well for me and i have bred cichlids using these readings. I think the main thing is to keep ph steady and somewhere in the alkaline region. Have found though if ph gets to high my plants die.

Temp i keep at pretty much 27 degrees.

Eveyones opinions probably vary slightly regarding these things but i think theres a similar trend we all use.

Good Luck Maingano.

[SGypsyMermaid]

Second, I keep reading about ph (suggestion is 8.0 - 8.2 ph). I have Guppies in a ten gal (the facet water is about 7.2 ph, I think, which is good for them). I never really checked ph in Cichlid tank, but is a 7.5 or 7.7 OK;

---lake cichlids are very adaptable and can be successfully kept anywhere between ph 7.0 and 9.0, but i personally like to maintain my tanks at around 8.3.




and nothing is mentioned about Ammonia, which is of concern to the Guppies.

----ammonia is deadly to all fish.

My Cichlid's seem to filter the gravel by themselves.

---cichlids do pick up bits of food from the gravel, and many of them shift the gravel around. i don't know if i would really call that 'filtering', though.


Thirdly, I use salt, though not all the time. I use "Seachem"'s Cichlid Lake Salt, and Live Bearer / Brackish Aquarium Salt. Should I add everytime I do a water change/add.

---only add salt when you are doing water changes, not when you replace evaporated water. when the water evaporates, the salt stays, so if you add salt when you top off your tank, you will increase the salt concentration, and eventually, it will get too high

[SGypsyMermaid]

Salt also help keep the water clean.

i'm not quite sure what you mean by this. salt is a good general tonic for freshwater fish. it kills many parasites, helps wounds heal, and improves gill function, but i don't know of anything that it does to keep the water clean. :?

[Maingano]

i'm not quite sure what you mean by this. salt is a good general tonic for freshwater fish. it kills many parasites, helps wounds heal, and improves gill function, but i don't know of anything that it does to keep the water clean.


Point taken, i should have explained more and said something like its a good general tonic for fish and kills parasites etc and keeps the water free of some unwanted pests.

Might do a google search. :oops:

Sorry still learning the system.

[Maingano]

i'm not quite sure what you mean by this. salt is a good general tonic for freshwater fish. it kills many parasites, helps wounds heal, and improves gill function, but i don't know of anything that it does to keep the water clean.


Point taken, i should have explained more and said something like its a good general tonic for fish and kills parasites etc and keeps the water free of some unwanted pests.

Might do a google search. :oops:

[SGypsyMermaid]

:wink: i couldn't figure out how to use the 'quote' thingy properly, either. i had to pm tom to find out how to do it. when you want to quote someone, don't use the 'reply' button. instead use the 'quote' button that's in the upper right-hand corner of the post that you're interested in. if you don't want to quote the entire post, just 'cut' the parts that you don't want, but you have to keep the 'quote tags' at the beginning and end.

[Maingano]

="SGypsyMermaid 'cut' the parts that you don't want, but you have to keep the 'quote tags' at the beginning and end.

Cool thanks Gypsy :)

[catfishes]

If you are feeding once a day, then water changes should be done once a week. There will be MORE stress put on your fish if they have poor water quality, than if you do regular changes to the system. I generally water change 10% of my water once a week - and would never do more than 25% water change on my tank at any given time. Doing large water changes runs the risk of uncycling your system, and that's the last thing you want to do if you're worried about stressing your fish.

I prefer using Tropic Marin (salt used for saltwater aquaria) to dose my tank with from time to time. (General rule of thumb, 1 tsp / 10 gallons tank water) It naturally gives your ph a little boost (I keep my tanks at 8.2). In addition I have a few pieces of bleached dead coral in my tanks, that leech out Calcium Carbonate and helps harden the water and also keeps the ph up. Keep in mind that there is a strong correlation between ph and kh.

After your tank has cycled, there shouldn't be any ammonia present unless it is coming from your tap water (city water sometimes is conditioned with it) in which case I suggest dosing the water you're using with Amquel before putting it into your tank. While you're at your local fish supply store, pick up a nitrite and nitrate test kit. The nitrite kit is more for seeing when your tank is completely cycled than anything. Nitrates are what I would be more worried about than anything. If you don't plan on doing weekly water changes, then definately do changes before your nitrates get to a toxic level (anything over 40 parts is toxic! ) Avoid Tetra Min and Wardly products at all costs. Most of these test kits have been sitting on shelves or in warehouses for a long time, and their active reagents have expired. Instead look for Sera test kits - which I have always found to be reliable, and use to test anything from ph to calcium and phosphate levels (salt tanks).

Temperature is a factor. I keep my tank at a steady 76 degrees F. This shouldn't fluctuate greatly ( I would say keep it above 74, and not over 78 unless you're dealing with fungus problems or ick). If you live in warm climates, and you know that your room temperature is going to sky rocket, try floating a frozen bottle of water in the tank to slowly cool it down. Don't dump loose ice cubes into the tank.

That's about it from my end. Good luck!

[SGypsyMermaid]

I generally water change 10% of my water once a week - and would never do more than 25% water change on my tank at any given time.

in many tanks, this would be sufficient, but the average rift lake tank is overstocked to diffuse aggression, and consequently, larger water changes are recommended.

[catfishes]

No offense, but I have yet to hear that excuse from anybody I know who keeps african tanks.

Just as you will say that you have never been steered wrong by these methods, neither have I in mine. If a fish doesn't jive in my tank, regardless of the amount of times I reorganized the rock work, the fish is moved into one of my other tanks or goes back to the store. I realize many people don't have that luxury and I'm lucky for that - but overstocking is not the only answer, and I am leery in it's practice since it entitles such large water changes.

[SGypsyMermaid]

No offense, but I have yet to hear that excuse from anybody I know who keeps african tanks.

Just as you will say that you have never been steered wrong by these methods, neither have I in mine. If a fish doesn't jive in my tank, regardless of the amount of times I reorganized the rock work, the fish is moved into one of my other tanks or goes back to the store. I realize many people don't have that luxury and I'm lucky for that - but overstocking is not the only answer, and I am leery in it's practice since it entitles such large water changes.

no offense taken--the forum is here for us to share ideas and advice--our experiences are all different, and we won't always agree. we do however, try to be careful not to be offensive in our disagreements. :wink: the idea of overstocking african tanks to diffuse aggression is not a new one, and it is not an 'excuse' as you termed it(although in my case, it goes too far), but a long-accepted method of dealing with the aggression of lake cichlids. of course not everyone advocates this method, but it's not something that i made up out of whole cloth to justify overstocking my tanks.

[jonah]

No offense, but I have yet to hear that excuse from anybody I know who keeps african tanks.

How many do you know? Because overstocking and large weekly water changes are as common as rocks and water in mbuna tanks.

Or am I completely misunderstanding you? :confused]

[catfishes]

Jonah,

I know quite a few actually, as I work and study at the only aquarium fish specialty shop in Maine and most of central New England. I guess I'm biased by their opinions, but in 12 years of running the store they have yet to encounter any complaints resulting from their advice. I have yet to enter into studying African husbandry and tank raising in my studies at school, but it will definately be a topic for conversation.

Gypsy,
Again, I certainly meant no offense, I am only a product of my environment, and felt the need to question further your methods. I plan on taking your ideas to work today, and discussing them with my employer. Perhaps they've heard the same, but after having tested it out decided on alternate maintanence. I'll also check and see what some of their books in their library have to say about it. :)

[SGypsyMermaid]

no harm, no foul. :wink:

[JonZeigler]

Ah, don't mean to be rude, but I would like to ask a few more:

There will be MORE stress put on your fish if they have poor water quality, than if you do regular changes to the system. I generally water change 10% of my water once a week - and would never do more than 25% water change on my tank at any given time.
I kind of agree with you about changing to much water at a time - I also have Guppys (they trained me). I think we should use the word shock. Not so clear on cycling. ?, this must means having ph, NH3&4, bateria, etc... at stable or optimum readings.

In addition I have a few pieces of bleached dead coral in my tanks, ...
I was sharing with another member, I purchased 15 lbs of "Florida Crushed Coral". I have a 20 gal with about 1/5 gravel. I don't know if putting the coral in would be wise, considering it would reduce water volume. Will this increase ph or is their another solution?

in which case I suggest dosing the water you're using with Amquel before putting it into your tank.
Ok, why not just do 10% water change: U do that anyway don't U? - or that won't correct the problem?

Avoid Tetra Min and Wardly products at all costs.
Is your experience based on a bad experience with Tetra products or ...
I live in NYC. I agree there aren't any date stamps on the boxes, but if that applies to Tetra, then Y not all the other brands. I have a Ammoniz test kit and a GH/KH test I purchased from Tetra a while back. I also have a pH kit purchased recently from Hagen. Suggestion?
Temp stays around 76-78 (room temp). My fish are beautiful; even the new juveniles. I just have alge prob's. Tank 10' from window.

PS: U can also click Post Reply, click Quote, copy and paste, and then click Quote again. Done----

[SGypsyMermaid]

I kind of agree with you about changing to much water at a time - I also have Guppys (they trained me). I think we should use the word shock. Not so clear on cycling. ?, this must means having ph, NH3&4, bateria, etc... at stable or optimum readings.


I tried your method of using the 'quote' function--i like it. if you gradually increase the size of your water changes as i suggested, you will not need to use the word 'shock'. you need to read up on cycling--i can't remember right now where it's posted--i'll get back to you on it--but you should read the posts in the water chemistry, african tanks and the beginner's forum--there is a lot of information there.

[SGypsyMermaid]

JON--look here:

http://www.cichlidforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=265&sid=4ec1305c21065839a89cb5605a 031b0d

[JonZeigler]

I am going to replace some of the gravel with the crush coral and do a 25 % water change. I will be able to use the extra later when I get the larger tank later. I will also check levels (ph, NH, etc...) using the Tetra kits I have, until I can find better equipment.
Should I expect it to take some time before the tank cycles, and are there any advantages to have a undergravel filter system?
The juvenile Estherae I just purchased, with the blue tinge, seems to be a little withdrawn this morning, but when I placed food in the tank, he responded well. I know these first few week are important. Wish me luck. :)

[SGypsyMermaid]

jon--how long has your tank been set up? your tank can tank anywhere from six weeks to six months to fully cycle. look here:

http://www.cichlidforums.com/viewtopic.php?p=3789#3789

[JonZeigler]

Hay ...Mermaid
My tank has been up for over three years. My question was in reference to adding the coral. I just rinsed and added the crush coral. I checked the ph and it still seems to be around 7.6, but I have a question. If I check the tube with my back to the light, the chart reads 7.6. If I turn the tub sideways it looks darker, and reads 8.0. I think the former is correct.
I also tested ammonia, and it seem to be at 0. I think I need a new kit for the general hardness and the carbonate hardness.

[SGypsyMermaid]

give it some time to take effect. the ph won't change that quickly.

[JonZeigler]

I read the chain on "Nitrite Levels" ( http://www.cichlidforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=265&sid=4ec1305c21065839a89cb5605a031b0d ) Thanks. I think I got it now. I knew of the bacteria build up on the bottom of the tank. I didn't know that they accummulate all over. I do vacumm, but I am aware to do a little at a time. I vacummed today, and the gravel seem to be pretty clean. Then I added the coral. I agree, I don't change filter components at water change, but I do clean the sides as needed. I might do a slit water change next week, but I try to do less as possible after major changes.
Thanks for your links on cycling ( http://www.cichlidforums.com/viewtopic.php?p=3789#3789 ). Need a new kit for checking Nitrite and Nitrate. :idea:

[SGypsyMermaid]

you're welcome. :D