Who has the most vics? contest

[cichlidfish]

I will award 2 pairs of wild fish from this season (not the moba ziare frontosa, lol unless I get medium ones) to the person who can prove to have the largest collection of victorian species colonies on this forum. Please list your species that are alive and breeding(at least in a pair) and only post photos of living fish I can see when I come to bring you the wild pairs. Contest decided and closed october 31rst.

[merlyn2221]

Do they have to be breeding? I have several species, but they are too small yet to breed.

I currently have a quad of A. latifasciata, and a trio of Ptyo. salmon "Hippo Point."

[cichlidfish]

Intention to bred and distribute would be the key. If small at least have an idea that there are males and females and you are going to breed them. I dont want a BAP but a recognition of long term intentions for this group of cichlids.

[merlyn2221]

Definately my intentionwas to breed both of them. In the trio I have 2 females and a male; in the quad I have 3 females and a male.

I hope to add more in the near future: thickskin, fulu, dayglow, flameback. They are not always available in my area, though.

Perhaps you can answer a question that has been burning in my mind regarding Victorians. If the lake is in such deplorable condition, and the lfs around here are supposedly getting their fish F0, where are they coming from? I thought exporting fish from Lake Victoria was illegal. My Hippo Points are all supposed to be F0, but I doubted that from the beginning. (They were probably farm raised in Thailand or elsewhere is what figured.) I don't care if they aren't wild. I was hoping some day that cichlid keepers breeding Victorians could bring their fish back to the lake when it is healthy again to restock the lake with it's original, natural inhabitants, even if they are not wild.

[cichlidfish]

ya know that is an odd one one salmon hippo.
I think some were brought over pretty recently but as you said they are pond bred too, most pet stores dont have a clue about the breeders, a lot of times one store will order and share with other stores, sometimes they dont even know where they were ordered from... and then there are stores that are very informed and up to date on cichlids. As for the endangered the only way they have been getting out is a box or two a year for science studies, and old world, a few places manage to get a box every so often from private parties. The sp. 44 a lot of us call ishmaeli was definatly imported around 1998 ro 1999 I will post if I find it should be mentioned on cichlidnews from old world, and they also got some "tomatoe" which I had that came in with a bit of argens for boston U in about 2000, we need to send me to scuba with a lot of others, surveys on the lake are scarce and we really dont know exactly which ones need restocking or not. The UINC is working on this, parasites and infections from other countris are a big hold up in vetranary research on ones that are intened to be reintroduced, the global policy that some scientists do not agree with is that if the original group is gone the space should be restocked with the closest posible match to the original, this means all the talk about you cant release a hybrid may be only partialy true, you can release a hybrid if the original is known to be gone, you can not release a hybrid if any of the original ones are still found, so the key question is how to get more surveys and keep as many species "standing by" as we can. :)

[merlyn2221]

Please add to my list igneopinnis.

[cichlidfish]

do you have a picture of that? Where are you located? I need some new vics myself, some interesting wild africans on a shipment I imported can be for trade, will post videos and prices when they are out of quaranteen

[cichlidfish]

PS I think you win the contest, pretty sad there are not more people doing needed work on the fish.

[tom]

Originally posted by cichlidfish
pretty sad there are not more people doing needed work on the fish.

Hi Jon

I think one reason for lack of interest in such a project lies in our (hobbyists) ignorance of what it really intends to ultimately accomplish:

Is the long-term objective the reintroduction of these fishes to Lake Victoria? If so, how will not only the biological barriers (e.g., the continuing decomposition of phytoplankton, resulting in nearly entirely anoxic waters) but also the political and economic challenges among the populations whose countries border the Lake be addressed? If another, more viable lake is being targeted, which bodies of water are candidates?

Does a protocol (not just the precis) exist for this proposed work? If so, how does it address the monitoring, analysis, and reporting of adverse events such as those touched upon in the "Hap thickskin vs sp. 44" thread in this forum? How well described are the procedures and statistical considerations? What is the current assessment of the project's significance?

I think such information will go a long way to get out-of-the-know folks (like me) interested.

[cichlidfish]

We have no plan is the problem, les is trying for more funding from world bank but 50 years into the problem there is not much to report as far as tangble action. It is really a matter of every person's responsibility to initiate and do something, the lack of public interest and lack of funding has left the lake and flock to whither and die. Your set of questions would best be answered by you saving up some money and going to Africa to do some research!!!!

[samak]

We are workin' in Europe to establish a list of what we have in our asso( almost 40 species) and to put in form a category of fishes for example sp44 is in list 4 like nubilus and others fishes that we don't really know, in category 3 there are fishes with some incertitudes( we don't know the real place from where they come or the real species to what they belong H.rockkribensis is in this list. In the category 2 there are species wich are describe with the origin that are not in danger in the wild for example P.nyererei Phyton and in category one ther are species like piscivorous, zooplanctivorous or species that are in danger in the wild for example H.orange rock hunter, H.orthostoma, H.pyrrocephalus, H.argens, etc..
We have not finish to close the list of all the species we have but the aim is to avoid to keep in the future the fishes of the category 4.
Chris

[cichlidfish]

Do not classify ANY fish as not to be kept(#4). We have almost no nubila here in USA, almost no sp 44, I just watched a new wild caught import of sp 44 thickskin die off in 2 years because people said "obliquiden" colored fish were no good to keep. Anyone that lists victorians as not to be kept is creating the second crime against the lake and all of us. Anyone who has had a victorian colony and "discontinued" them is a crime against all that exists. The scientists do not know what is going on on the lake and are not doing anything about it for at least another 20 years, any species that is captive will have better genetics and health if kept captive. KEEP ALL VICS EVEN AND FAIR DO NOT TRY TO CLASSIFY PEOPLE TAKE A QUICK LOOK AND KILL ALL OF THEM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Unless of course you have 3 months of surveys in the lake this year and there is no hyacynth, polution, or perch anymore..... no one else has ever surveyed the whole lake, the frew surveys you can read about were small catches at a few locals, not to be used as information this many years later.

[samak]

Hi,The aim is to avoid hybridations and strains that we don't really know what they are. If our hobby don't progress it's because every body can do what he want without rules. How building a conservation program if we don't know exactly what are this fishes? we saw too many hybreds to continue in this way and in the commercials traders shops, it's worse, seeing fluos and albinos or selected varients, we can't go this way. Don't worry, we are working with a scientist who fished on the lake and know what he is talkin' about.We want to keep genetic diversity and good wild phenotypes, that's why we have to choice. how sayin' people to keep victorians if they are many hybreds or misidentifications? It's a mystery. We take the part to propose good strains that are identified and wellknown. We don't kill the fishes, just we ask our members nort to keep this strains(list4)
sincerely
Chris

[cichlidfish]

The only scientist that is qualified to make a list of vics to destroy is GOD. Ole, Les, only know a portion of the fish, even if they would get serious and work together they only know half of the fish of victoria. Instead of making a list number 4 of fish people will kill or not raise, make a list number 1 of people who have stupid mixes or bad breeding. Victoria was a young lake, not all mixes are bad, for example Ole says mwanza gulf has Nyererei he thinks are mixes between species in 1980s (Pund. nyererei "red" X Pund. pundamillia "zebra" by natural mixing). A conservation effort should make amends by listing bad people, the fish did not destroy the lake and no one knows who all of the fish are. If your list number 4 can be specific to crossbreeds at a certain shop that is good, if your list number 4 has one fish name on it people will use the excuse to throw away 5 kinds of fish that are similar to the one fish name you put on list number 4, albinos are a natural breed (rare yes) for example if you say "albino ruby green" on your list everyone will throw away the good ruby greens also, the list will get out of your group and effect all of us like cancer.

[cichlidfish]

The problem is that people are lazy, I am trying to tell you that now you can almost find ZERO victorians in the USA, (look at how many vics are listed on this page , it is sad and pathetic) this is because ONE fish name was listed as bad, "obliquidens" was said to be bad because the name was misused so the lazy Americans are throwing away ALL Victorians!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! One fish name listed as bad is a disaster for all of the rest of the good fish, you still have a strong market, please listen and list the bad people and do not start that tiny crack in the ice you will fall through eventually.

[samak]

Hi, what is right in a country is not necessary right in another. so time will tell.
Chris

[cichlidfish]

Ignoring this market trend and causing more damage to the captive stocks is not a privelege for any country. These are mostly yet to be identified or proven endangered or not species that do not "belong" to any of us, they belong to the entire earth. When you have caused the deaths of unidentified stocks with a list #4 you will not be able to bring them back from the grave if you are incorrect, please limit list number 4 to fish you have proven with DNA teasts to be necesary to destroy and only identify the shopkeepers so that the species are not victemized at good shops. Keeping ALL victorian stocks alive in the market place is the only survival chance many species have, they can not afford any "bad press" and it is not any cichlid club or scientist's right to decide they should be destroyed. You are offering genocide as your "conservation" in a species flock of unidentified species, no scientist knows what is good or not in these fish, for example the Neochromis groups. I would put YOU on list number 4 simply because your "ishmeali" pics look like Paralabidochromis paucidens! see the official pics and compare http://www.cichlidfish.net/gallery/victoria/labrochromis_ishmaeli.htm

[samak]

Hi, we don'y want to distroy any fishes, if a strain has been hybridyze, would yu let it sold or exchance to a real species? No for us, we take the choice to promote species really clearly identified that's all. We are not makin' a genocide, genocide is for men and not for animals. We just tryin' to make a priority choice to a conservation programm. A species can be in 2 list simultaneously ruby green with wild phenotype in list 3, albinos in list 4 or the nyererei can be in 2 list as well one like phyton in list 2 the another that we don't know where it comes in list 4.

Chris

[cichlidfish]

I know you mean well in your intentions, I have to make the point for you that there is very little information considering the size of the lake and many species never studied, no one knows for sure what is good. With so little good information, a slight bit of bad information goes farther than you would expect.

[merlyn2221]

Hello, I've been away and was just reading this thread for the first time since I posted on it way back.

I think the original goal for most Lake Victorian "conservationists" was to breed pure species in captivity and at some point, when the lake has recovered, reintroduce them there. However, from what I have been reading lately, it may take a lifetime for the lake to recover, unless some things directly related to it and those who live in direct contact with it change the way things are done.

Cichlidfish (Jon) let me know what's been going on in your Victorian fish search.

[jennigypsy]

...for what it's worth...
I have a p. nyererei 'ruti island'...and tonight at my fish club auction, picked up a bag of 7 more!! ($4!!!!!!!) >>they were BAP fry....so, some folks here in Pgh are breeding vics :)

[Fischfan13]

I have to say if it wasn't for Chris (Samaki) I wouldn't have gotten so involved with Lake Vic's.
Presently I have a trio of Astatotilapia latisfasciata...
a trio of Purple/OB Muhuru...
a trio of "Fire Haps"...
"Fire Hap" fry..
and Xmas Fulu fry.

Hey Merlyn, if you are still looking for Xmas Fulu I have them and they are about 2 months old......I am waiting for them to grow out a bit though first.

[uttman]

My Victorian List

Astatotilapia Nubila
Haplochromis Tomato
Haplochromis All Reds
Haplochromis Ruby Greens
Haplochromis Blue Fire Fins
Haplochromis Obliquidens
Haplochromis 44
Haplochromis Flame back
Haplochromis Limax
Haplochromis Fire Red Uranda
Pundamilia Nyererei Black and Orange
Pundamilia Nyererei Red Head
Pundamilia Nyererei Red
Pundamilia Nyererei Ruti Island F1
Pundamilia Nyererei Ngombe Island
Haplochromis Golden Duck
Paralabidochromis Rock Kribensis
Xystichromis Phytophagus

[SGypsyMermaid]

uttman--post some pics!:D

[SGypsyMermaid]

fischfan, can you post pics of your purple muhuru?

[uttman]

I don’t have a camera other then my web cam. Maybe I can borrow a digital camera from someone I may know, because dragging my computer around would really ____. Well it wouldn’t be fun. Also my Pundamilia sp Nyererei Ruti Island and my Haplochromis sp. Golden Ducks are not large enough to tell what they are yet.:(

[samak]

Hi here's my list:
P.nyererei Phyton, Ruti isld
P.macrocephala Phyton
P.sp"red head"Zué isld
P.igneopinnis Ndurwa
Astatoreochromis alluaudi
H.xenognathus Kisumu
H.sp"rockkribensis"Mwanza north
H.argens Mwanza
H.piceatus Mwanza
H.pyrrocephalus Mwanza
H.orange rock hunter Gabalema
H;chromogynos Zué
H.chilotes Zué
Neochromis rufocaudalis Saa Nane
H;orthostoma Kyoga

[uttman]

What are we calling the Haplochromis Obliquidens now?

[SGypsyMermaid]

http://cichlidforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=113

[merlyn2221]

UTTMAN: awesome list! Let's see those beauties!

[africancichlidcentral]

I'm currently working with the following Victorians:
Haplochromis sp. 44
Haplochromis sp. "Thick Skin"
Haplochromis sp. Ruby Green
Haplochromis sp. Tomatoe
Haplochromis sp. All Red
Haplochromis sp. Flameback
Harpagochromis sp. Golden Duck
Astatotilapia Nubila
Several more species are available from a friend but I just don't have the tank space. He's got probably 20 species himself... All are breeding and I have fry on everything but the All Red, Thick Skin, and 44...

[AfricanCichlidFanatic]

I have a nice selection of Victorian

Astatotilapia “Latifasciata”
Astatotilapia "Aneocolor"
Astatotilapia "Nubila" Anchor Island
Astatotilapia “Nubila”
Haplochromis “Tomato” (Identification under evaluation)
Haplochromis “Blue Fire Fin”
Haplochromis "Burtoni" Tanzania
Haplochromis “All Red” Lake Nawampasa
Haplochromis “All Red” Lake Edward
Haplochromis “Ruby Green"
Haplochromis 44 “Obliquidens”
Haplochromis "Thick Skin" Nyegezi Bay
Haplochromis “Gold” Kenya
Haplochromis “Flame Back”
Haplochromis “Red Zebra” (Identification under evaluation)
Haplochromis “Christmas Fulu”
Haplochromis "Limax" Lake George
Haplochromis “Limax” Lake Edward
Haplochomis "Crimson Tide" Dark Morph
Haplochromis "Fire" Uranda
Haplochromis "Golden Duck"
Lipochromis “Matumbi Hunter”
Paralabidochromis “Chromogynos” Zue Island
Paralabidochromis “Redfin Piebald”
Paralabidochromis "Rock Kribensis" Uganda
Pundamilia Igneopinnis "Black and Orange Nyererei"
Pundamilia Nyererei “Igombe Island”
Pundamilia Nyererei "Red Head"
Pundamilia Nyererei "Ruti Island" (Need Female)

I have pictures at this link

http://www.africancichlidfanatic.com/Lake_Vicioria_Stock.html

click on the species name for the picture

Thomas

[StructureGuy]

Thomas,

Where did you get the blue "rock kribensis" uganda from?

[skiitswitch]

wow thomas - that's quite a selection you have there!

[AfricanCichlidFanatic]

Hello, ya it is getting insane but I believe in the preservation of these Lakes species, I think my Malawi list is about the same. StructureGuy I got my breedind pair from a guy in Illinois that I know from the GCCA club. Is the ones from the other lakes that cant be counted?

Thomas

[jennigypsy]

hey Thomas...I've got a female Ruti

[Matt V]

AfricanCichlidFanatic -

where you from in IL?

I'm in Chicago and giving some serious - very serious - thought to some serious Vic purchases. Got any fry?

[AfricanCichlidFanatic]

Yas I am Des Plaines in fact, the water sucks in that town. Fry?
http://www.africancichlidfanatic.com/Lake_Vicioria_Stock.html

Thomas

[AfricanCichlidFanatic]

jennigypsy I was going to drive out to wet thum and pick some up but if they are out I just might be interested or maybe I could send you a male if I can get some more if you wont, how big is your female?

[AfricanCichlidFanatic]

O hey jennigypsy OK now I know who you are. Do you still have those "Bloyetti" and those "Purple Princess"?

[samak]

Hi I "m interrested to know where did yu got the red zebra species? normally it's a mollusc crusher that we don't know how and who did import this?
very impressive list, the black & orange is Pundamilia igneopinnis but something is strange on him. I never saw blue irridescence on the spinal dorsal finn part, perhaps it's the flash that do show this colour?
Xris:)

[AfricanCichlidFanatic]

I do agree on the Pundamilia igneopinnis, on that blue but it is not that bright as it is in the pic. That is a nice Pundamilia igneopinnis I have been searching for some like that but I get the one you have seen in that pic. As for the Haplochromis Red Zebra that is just a guess on that identification I have originally bought him as a Haplochromis Red at a auction (auctions you never no what you get at those) but I never herd spices under just the name Red. So I went through Ole’s book to see if I can find something under that name and I came across Haplochromis Red Zebra. I would like to find out for certain though. What do you think on this identification? I would appreciate all the help I can get.

[samak]

Hi yu can try a test to see if it's a real snail crusher, let it starve one day or 2 and give him snails, if it eat them then It's a crusher if not then it's another species. As the H.sp"red zebra" is largely unknown in the hobby, I can't tell yu for sure if it's this species or not. But this is a nice fish .
Xris

[AfricanCichlidFanatic]

Man I have to get me some of these Pundamilia igneopinnis that lok like yours, he is vary nice. And thaks fo the info. I have more pics of that Red Zebra if that would help.

[samak]

Hi yes if yu have more, i Will be interrested to see them.
thanx
xris

[AfricanCichlidFanatic]

I have 18 pics in total of this fish how should I send them to you?

[samak]

If yu have females pics too, it's good and pics of the male face, profile tha'll be nice.
xris

[AfricanCichlidFanatic]

Do you have a e-mail that I can send this to or should I post the pics in the thread?

[SGypsyMermaid]

my igneopinnis show blue iridescence in the dorsal spine as well...but it doesn't show up when the fish are in full breeding dress.

[samak]

hi I 've friends in France that do have the same blue irrdescence in the dorsal spinous part. But yu can't see this color when the fish is shot without flash.
Perhaps is it the same fish, but mine don't show such color in the dorsal fin.
xris