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View Full Version : thinking on going with a canister



Up on one12
02-11-2007, 10:08 AM
Let me start off by saying i like to have more than enough filtration in my tank..
I have only had my 90g for about 6 weeks and have two Penguin 350 bio-wheels(came with the setup). I am thinking about going witha a canister filter. My questions is, wiht a 90 will a canister either a fuval 405 or a magnum 350 be enough(both rated at 100g)for a healthy A. cichlid tank? Right now i am leaning to the fuval. Also i pretty much know nothing about canister filters so this would be my first. I have been doing searchs/research on them. If anyone has any good sites to read up and learn more about them it would be great..
Thanks again !

RustyNut
02-11-2007, 03:04 PM
Your current setup is pretty decent already, but if you want to go cannister you might still want one of the Penguins for mechanical filtering.... Cannisters are not the best for that.

P-Did
02-11-2007, 05:08 PM
Unless you have a fish room with a concrete floor and a drain, I would not use any external filter due to the leak risk.

I've tried every filter-type on the market, and by far, I get the best results from my super charged under gravel filter. It has crazy flow, rediculous surface area, reduces the size of bubbles to give water clarity that is impossible with other filters, and is virtually invisiable to the eye.

Also, it has no chance of leaking, and stays cleaner (since I vacuum all my substrate more often than I clean my filter pads, my UGF probably gives off less nitrates than any of my other filters). And since the filter plate is so narrow, it's easy to put the vacuum against the plate to make sure nothing stays under the plate.

IMO, a UGF supplimented by strong HOB's is the ultimate filtration system.

Here's a shot of the "invisable filter".

http://prop65ch.com/fish/75gal.jpg

RustyNut
02-11-2007, 07:19 PM
The " risk" of leaking is overstated by P-did. Cannisters leak about as often as hobs do... and you failed to mention how cichlid digging can uncover the UGF plates and degrade performance significantly.


Its only fair that if your going to recommend a filter that you list its negatives as well as its positives.... Otherwise you sound like RD :D

Glaive
02-11-2007, 07:22 PM
:rofl2:

To be honest I believe the two penguins would suffice as is. If you choose to replace one of the penguins with a cannister you should be fine as well.

Dragonkeeper
02-12-2007, 11:56 AM
agree with glaive and Rusty, the 2 HOBs are fine. If you definatly want a canister I would go with the fluval 405. I have 2 of them and they are great. The only thing I don't agree with is that the canister filters aren't as good as the HOBs for mechanical filtering. My 55 gal with the fluval is cleaner looking than my 30 with the HOB and they both have the same filter elements in them. But just an opinion of mine.

spifff2003
02-12-2007, 02:45 PM
as rusty said cannisters can leak too. when i was still living with my mom like icons ago i had a magnum 350 on my 55 one day the carpet felt soggy sure enough stress cracks at the bottom. it only leaked when it was running. that'a personal reason why i stay away from magnums. as far as HOB"s ive never had one leak not in 26 years of fish keeping i'd go with the fluval though.

Steve C
02-12-2007, 08:28 PM
Cough, ahem, ahem, eheim.....excuse me.

abenez
02-17-2007, 09:22 AM
I'll add my 2cents -
I love my Emperor 400...
If I didn't already have the Magnum, I'd have 2 of the emperors and that's it for my 90.
I know the emperor is doing all the real work. The magnum is pretty poor choice... never realy gets the rated GPH...

I also like putting the 100 micron filter pad in the 2nd slot of the emperor. It really makes a BIG difference.
Well... that's more like 3.5 cents....

Rob D
02-17-2007, 10:14 AM
I have a 55 gal and run two penguin 350's with the intakes about 3-4" off the bottom (sand sub) along with a Fluval 304 with just Bio noodles and crushed coral in it for the bio/buffer since I tend to slightly over stock. I also use two Aquaclear 70 and two Aquaclear 50 power heads for a good current. No waste touches the bottom and my water stays crystal clear. I do one large 40-50% wc per week but my levels at the end of the week are still low (Nitrates not much higher than 40 with 24 fish in a 55gal) One thing that worked out well for me is; I used my dremel to cut the back off the filter cartridges and remove the carbon. Now all I do to clean them is fill a bucket with tank water during the wc and rinse them out. I alternate the cleaning of the filters each week.

Up on one12
02-17-2007, 05:10 PM
and i though i liked to over filter Ty for the reply !

shell696
02-18-2007, 09:55 AM
I thought I did too till i came on here and now I am re-evluating my setup thinking I don't have enough and every night I am looking at it saying I need to do more its not clean enough. :)

So now I am looking at getting more filters.

Prized_Peacocks
02-18-2007, 11:15 AM
Rena xp3 is the latest, and best filter I have ever used.

Steve C
02-18-2007, 11:30 AM
A 55 with 3 filters and 4 power heads?! Thats got to be like a whirlpool ride at a water park.

Rob D
02-24-2007, 08:35 AM
You think it's too much? I get waste settling to the bottom if I shut the power heads off. The fish do not act/swim any different if they are on or off. The only difference is feeding time. With them on the fish have to chase the food with them off the food just floats around.I think they get more exercise chasseing the food:D This is a recent shot of my tank. I know I need more rock, it's comming.

http://www.cichlidforums.com/postimages/2007-02-24/181875-001.jpg

Up on one12
02-25-2007, 07:43 AM
Ok well i bought a one , i went with the fluval 405 !... Now for a new question whats the best media setup for a cichlid tank??

shell696
02-25-2007, 08:34 AM
Rob what size tank is that?

Rob D
02-25-2007, 09:25 AM
It's a 55 gal.

Rob D
02-25-2007, 12:31 PM
The link in my signature is different now. I added a new gallery page to my site for my fish pics. I am trying to get better pics to make a nice gallery to show off my tank.

P-Did
03-08-2007, 11:57 PM
Its only fair that if your going to recommend a filter that you list its negatives as well as its positives.... Otherwise you sound like RD

I agree there. But even if an area of the plate is exposed, with a couple of average powerheads, hou still have a 600 GPH traveling rapidly next to/through your gravel, which gives you plenty of bio-filtration. My fish still have yet to uncover the plate, but I've witnessed in American tanks, where they dig faster, it still never caused a crash when the plate was exposed.

I also think that any external filter is more likely to leak than an HOB. I arrive at this opinion based on how many people have had bad experiences with external canisters of sumps. But that's just what I believe based on the data in front of me. But either way, the UGF is the only one that really has zero percent chance of leaking while not taking up any space in the tank like an internal canister.

Now that super charge powerheads are so cheap, I feel the UGF will make a comeback. I've tried every filter option, and so far, the UGF always leaves the water smelling good and looking cystal clear (not to mention all the breeding). They love the surface current and it's a more natural way to filter your water.

No matter the filter though, it you smell your water everyday, it's pretty damned hard to crash you tank. I think it's pretty obvious when the water is starting to go foul (the nitrate earthy smell gets stronger), and anybody should be able to avoid crashing any filter. So why not go with the most simple and easy-to-maintain option? People who blame their tank crash on a particle type of filter simply weren't paying enough attention, so I judge a filter more on its chance to fail (ie leak) than anything else.

Glaive
03-09-2007, 01:04 AM
Most filter leaks are due to operator error. Lubricate the seals once in a while and one can avoid this, maybe yearly to help the rubber retain its nature. Vaseline is one safe option for lubrication in a filter such as a fluval cannister, the o-ring does not really touch water. Pay attention and have patience.

RustyNut
03-09-2007, 06:29 AM
Originally posted by P-Did
I agree there. But even if an area of the plate is exposed, with a couple of average powerheads, hou still have a 600 GPH traveling rapidly next to/through your gravel, which gives you plenty of bio-filtration. My fish still have yet to uncover the plate, but I've witnessed in American tanks, where they dig faster, it still never caused a crash when the plate was exposed.

It won't cause a "crash" but unless it is allowed to remain like that for a while, but you will have a mini-cycle as a result of the lost surface area and dying bacteria that are no longer getting the needed O2.



I also think that any external filter is more likely to leak than an HOB. I arrive at this opinion based on how many people have had bad experiences with external canisters of sumps. But that's just what I believe based on the data in front of me. But either way, the UGF is the only one that really has zero percent chance of leaking while not taking up any space in the tank like an internal canister.

Not true, Internal filters and sponge filters also can claim 0% chance of causing a leak.... However I think your fear of leaks is a bit overstated. Hobs usually only leak as a result of very poor maintenance, or user error. Also note that a sponge filter can yeild a nearly equal surface area and cannot be disturbed in any way by the digging of cichlids, this makes it far superior to a UGF which can become anaerobic over time if not properly maintained killing all your fish....(Sponge filters are also typically less expensive)



Now that super charge powerheads are so cheap, I feel the UGF will make a comeback. I've tried every filter option, and so far, the UGF always leaves the water smelling good and looking cystal clear (not to mention all the breeding). They love the surface current and it's a more natural way to filter your water.

More natural in what way? All bio-logical filters operate in the exact same way.... The medium changes, but the action of the filter is identical.



No matter the filter though, it you smell your water everyday, it's pretty damned hard to crash you tank. I think it's pretty obvious when the water is starting to go foul (the nitrate earthy smell gets stronger), and anybody should be able to avoid crashing any filter.

Smelling your tank does nothing to prevent your tank from crashing, instead it tells you if your filter is working! By the time you smell anything bad the tank has already begun to crash...



So why not go with the most simple and easy-to-maintain option? People who blame their tank crash on a particle type of filter simply weren't paying enough attention, so I judge a filter more on its chance to fail (ie leak) than anything else.

I judge a filter based on its ability to perform its job reliably and without excessive maintenance. Based on that alone, the mighty sponge filter is king! The humble UGF falls to second last place only ahead of the "bubble up" corner filters....when it comes to cichlids