Fish are Dying One by One

[iluvstartrek]

Hello Everyone:

I am having trouble with both of my 125g tanks. One tank has Mbuna's in it and the other has Aulono's and Hap's. I've had Cichlids for a couple of years and never had trouble until 4-6 months ago when I sold my fish and bought new ones. I bought the new fish via mail. I have had the same trouble in both of my tanks. A fish will stop eating, but it is not holding, it will gulp air/water, be lethargic, and just find a place and stay there. Their stomach doesn't look bloated but could very well be, I just can't tell. They don't have a mark on their body either. I get them out and put them in a quarenteen tank. I medicate them but they die. The books say to use Metronidazole (which is actually what I use on my face, in gel form, for my rosacea). I have had major trouble finding that though. The best I could find was Paragon II.

The last time I had sickness in my Aulono and Hap tank I got the fish out and isolated them (they proceeded to die at a later date), cleaned the tank really good and finally found Hex-a-mit, which is Metronidazole, and used it plus Kanacyn in my tank. So far that tank is o.k. but I keep looking for a sick fish. That was around a month ago.

My Mbuna tank is another thing though. It seems like a fish will get sick every couple of weeks, more or less. I treated that tank a month ago with Clout and Erythromyacin (I have NO idea how to spell that, sorry). I have done two good gravel vacs, taking everything out of the tank and changing 50%+ of the water out. I am still having trouble and can't get Hex-a-mit. I can only find it at Big Al's but they take 7 week days to get it here.

I don't know what to do. I called Armke's, which is who I got some of the fish from, and they said that medicine isn't a good idea because it can stress out the fish and be bad for them. He said that there was something in my water and I should do a 50% water change and then a 30% change everyday, or other day, for a week. They said I needed to totally change the water out. They also said, and I've read the same thing, that illness is caused by not taking care of the tank properly. I change my water, 40% at least, every week. It always tests where it should. Heck, my nitrates are always low. My tanks are also not over-stocked. He also told me that the ammonia tests don't show ammonia in hard water all the time, even if you have some.

I would really welcome suggestions. I have no idea what to do. Also, can I put the fish in a big bucket with a heater (The heater won't have to work much since it is around 100 degress outside and I keep my house at around 80 degress.) and an airstone? My quarantine tank is in use. I can medicate the fish there. It will probably die anyway, all the other did.

Thanks,

[aharris]

I don't know what's up with your tanks, but I do recall that a similar regimen has been recommended on Armke's sight (among others) for dealing with things like bloat in a Tropheus tank. They claim that it works well for them.

[SGypsyMermaid]

do you have any salt(NaCl) in the tank? it might help, can't hurt. also raise the temp to about eighty-five degrees. feed the fish in both tanks with anti-parasite food for the recommended period, then switch to anti-bacterial food. at least that's what i would do.

[iluvstartrek]

I put salt in the tank at one time, but haven't put it in lately. In fact, my LFS told me to put twice the amount in. I'm going to get some more and put it in though. The trouble is, I don't know how much to put in. I put some in more than a month ago and I've done probably 4-6 water changes. The salt goes out with the water does't it?

I found anti-parasite food, but can't find anti-bacterial food. I did find Metronidazole though. (I wish that the employees of stores would know their medicines better. I'd called that store about Metronidazole yesterday and they said they didn't have it. I guess reading labels was too difficult for them.)

So, should I treat the one tank that just got a sick fish with Metronidazole and then the anti-parasite food and then the anti-bacterial food? I shouldn't feed them the medicated food at the same time I put Metronidazole in the tank should I?

[matt1066]

Wow, you have some nasty stuff going on. I would do as SGM suggests, give it a week. If that doesn't work I would clout both tanks(not a pretty picture). If you get no results have your water tested for pesticides. If you have a lot of $ in stock and have any hard to find species, do your water changes with RO water, expensive I know, but you sound a tad desperate. If all the above doesn't work I would start again with a disinfected tank. It all sounds to me like its bacterial in nature, and if clout doesn't work-do a tear down. I know this is not what you really want to hear(who would?). If you use well water it may have some contaminants. I assume you are using a good quality water conditioner. Maybe your PH is to low, that could kill off a tank quickly. It should be a minimum of 7.6, better yet 8.2.

Hope some of these toughts help. All the best!!!

Matt

I never heard of an ammonia test that didnt register under high PH, if anything it would be low PH. Test, test, test.

[SGypsyMermaid]

Originally posted by iluvstartrek
I put salt in the tank at one time, but haven't put it in lately. In fact, my LFS told me to put twice the amount in. I'm going to get some more and put it in though. The trouble is, I don't know how much to put in. I put some in more than a month ago and I've done probably 4-6 water changes. The salt goes out with the water does't it?

I found anti-parasite food, but can't find anti-bacterial food. I did find Metronidazole though. (I wish that the employees of stores would know their medicines better. I'd called that store about Metronidazole yesterday and they said they didn't have it. I guess reading labels was too difficult for them.)

So, should I treat the one tank that just got a sick fish with Metronidazole and then the anti-parasite food and then the anti-bacterial food? I shouldn't feed them the medicated food at the same time I put Metronidazole in the tank should I?

if you've done four to six water changes of at least twenty-five percent each, then just proceed as if there were no salt in the tank.(be sure to dissove the salt in a separate container before adding to the tank!). i will PM you with the email address of a seller on aquabid who has anti-bacterial food. i prefer to use medicated food because it does not disrupt the biofilter. i don't think that you should use the metronidazole at the same time, but i'm not sure. i wouldn't.

[iluvstartrek]

Hi Matt:

I use city water, but who knows how good/bad that is. I know we are just down the road from the water treatment plant and so we can't have an inground pool because of the inground water line going though our back yard:( It is generally at 100 degress in the summer here and gets up to 110 frequently.

Anyway, I use Prime or Nova Aqua for a water conditioner. I don't know how good those are, but I can get my Nova Aqua bottle filled up for $5.00 at the LFS. I kind of like the Prime though because it says it gets rid of nitrates and other stuff, and I was told that tap water has nitrates in it. The next time I get water conditioner though, I'm getting Stress Coat, unless you know of a better kind.

I've used Cloat before. It is not pleasant. Some of my rocks now have a blue cast to them. I even tried scrubbing them and running them through the dishwasher.

I finally found Metronidazole and Kanacyn. I am treating my tank with them both. The Cichlid Exchange said that the Metronidazole is for parasites and the Kanacyn is for bacteria. I'm treating the tank with these every other day for three treatments. Then, I'm going to do what Armke's said. I'm going to do a 50% water change then a 40% one every other day for a week. I also, finally found some anti-parasite food (all they had was this big can of it so I'll have enough to last for a long time) and some anti-bacteria food. After the water changes, I'm going to do what SGM says with the food.

If none of this works I'll do as you suggest and treat with Cloat. I don't want to have to start with a whole new tank, but I will if all of the above doesn't work. It isn't so much the exspense of starting over, you can Clorox the rocks and sand isn't that exspensive, but what a pain in the butt.

Some place on line recommended using something called Aquafuran, which is a Nifurpirinol product. You can only get it outside of the United States, at least that is what they said. They had an internet address for some Danish company. I've never even heard of Nifurpirinol. Some guy bought it though, and said it worked great.

Thanks for your suggestions.

[matt1066]

Hi Sherri, stick with the prime, it doesn't get any better than that.

Also if you do Clorox your rocks, be very careful as the bleach can penetrate many rocks and youll end up with a polluted tank and a lot of dead fish friends.

Good luck!! Sometimes it is better to do nothing, and just keep your water at optimal levels; let nature take its course. I know if I were you I would need a xanax by now, probablym two LOL

Regards,

Matt

[fOx]

No Chlorox... boil them. The same results without any negative drawbacks.

fOx

[Neriak14]

Go for the Stress Coat It's always worked for me.

[iluvstartrek]

Hello:

I never thought about boiling them. That is a good idea. What about the big rocks that won't fit in the pan? I'll try putting them in the sink and putting boiling water over them.

I've only used clorox once and then, I ran it through the dishwasher, without soap, a couple of times and let the rock sit out for weeks.

What do people that have salt water and coral do? I heard that they used clorox.

[K_Labs]

I am a noob take my advise or throw it away. Hi there sorry about your losses past present and future. Ha I would be pullin my hair out by now:yikes:. I think you should start by taking out the rocks(where did u get them from?) and leaving them out. Some rocks can actually be poisoning your fish. Then add some floating plants. If you have high acidic levels they will turn to mush, I think. If there is a problem with the water you will see it in the plants. I think that some1 else said it best. Your well water is probably crap and u should use the water from your LFS. Or drinking water from those Crystal Gyser machines. Also the bucket thing is very possible you don't even need a heater. I had a 15 gallon tub and filled it up stuck a powerhead in there for filtration and air and it is still going. The only problem is that it starts to smell so you have been warned. If you don't have to many fish I would suggest putting them in some LFS water in the bucket (or just the ones u really like). Then treat your tank to daily water changes for a week and add guppies to test it out. They are way cheaper than cichlids as u already know.

[Seedy]

Hey L_Labs...this post is from 2003...

I don't think they need help anymore... :razz:

[K_Labs]

o lol I was in the new post section. Thanks for the heads up