Setting up a new tank (Questions)

[Mobious]

I am getting ready to set up a Cichlid tank.. I have had Convicts and red devils in the past..

So almost a year ago I tore down my 75gal reef tank and had planned on using that..

My questions are.. Can I use my reef lighting for this Cichlid tank?
2 400watt 10k MH and 2 VHO actinic 160watts each. That is a total of over 1000watts Next.. Will a Wet/Dry filter be ok for this tank? I never used the bio balls in my reef set up so I thought about putting them in with some cotton and carbon in the tray..

Also.. I am planning on going back with some Convicts.. Not sure if I am going to just start with a pair of get a pair of black and pink..Suggestions would be helpful

Ohh yea.. What substraite should I use for them and if I want to plant my tank? I thought about using Figi sand or just some brown gravel..
Some guy at the fish store told me to get (I think it was) Onix (sp) like $23 a bag(15lb).. and I would need like 10 bags. lol Now I know he wouldnt be lying to me if I had a reef tank.. But for a Cichlid tank?


Thanks!

[jonah]

Welcome to the Cichlid Forums!:D

I'm kind of in a similar situation. I'm tearing down my 75g reef, but I'm going to a South American planted tank with Apistos. I think your lighting will most likely result in a lot of algae. Most of the cichids I'm familiar with (other than dwarfs, angels and discus) tend to eat plants. My lighting is 440w of VHO and I'll definitly be looking at CO2 injection with that much light.

Onyx would look cool, but I wouldn't do it at that price. I'd probably just use river gravel or playsand from Home Depot or Lowe's. It's about $4 a bag for 40-50lbs. If you do try plants you'll want to mix the gravel with some peat or laterite.

I can't think of any reason the wet/dry wouldn't work, especially if you aren't going to stock the tank too heavily (1 or 2 pairs of cons). I've never used one before though.

[Mobious]

Cool thanks for the welcome and the answer... I will prob just go with the river gravel.. cant beat $4 for 50 lbs.. Hummm havent thought about peat... I guess I would put a layer of gravel then peat then gravel right? Then wait until the tank is established and start planting..
Only 2 pair of Cons in a 75? is that the max? I have had cons in the past in a 30.. Started off with a pair and of course they spawned.. I ended up with around 10 or so in there with no appairent problems.. What would you say the max amount of cons I could have in a 75gal tank 48" long?

I can understand about the algea.. But I have a theory that might work.. as it did in my reef tank..

In my reef.. The best way I found to combat algea in the tank was to convert my wet/dry in to a refugium.. In it.. I have macro algea which ate up all the food for the bad algea.. Once the refuge is establish most of the algea in the tank disappeared.. So if I were to promote algea growth in the sump on the bio balls shouldnt that take care of tank born algea?

Ill give it a try.. But I will also be alternating the MHs.. They wont be on together very much.. about 30mins to an hour a day..

Ohhhh.. Im getting excited.. IMO.. Cons are the only fresh water fish that have more personality than reef fish.. lol

Cya.. Thanks again!

[jonah]

Originally posted by Mobious
I guess I would put a layer of gravel then peat then gravel right? Then wait until the tank is established and start planting..

Only 2 pair of Cons in a 75? is that the max?

In my reef.. The best way I found to combat algea in the tank was to convert my wet/dry in to a refugium.. In it.. I have macro algea which ate up all the food for the bad algea.. Once the refuge is establish most of the algea in the tank disappeared.. So if I were to promote algea growth in the sump on the bio balls shouldnt that take care of tank born algea?



Layering the gravel with the peat is how I was told to do it. Of course by the time I'd heard that I'd already put down a layer of kitty litter mixed with laterite and river gravel so it was too late. I'll be using peat, gravel and laterite on my 75g when I start converting. I just bought the peat at Lowe's last night. Make sure it's untreated, not additives. The bag just says "sphagrum peat" under ingredients.

I was just guessing on the number of cons, I thought you were saying two pair. They get pretty territorial when they spawn so it's hard to tell how many you could keep without a lot of fighting.

That's a pretty interesting idea about the refugium, I've never heard of it being done on a freshwater tank before. If it works out for you please post the results here. I'm sure it would be of interest to many readers.:)

[Mobious]

Ahh.. ok I was talking about starting the tank out with 1 or 2 pair. Thats cool.. Ill prob start with a pair each of black and pink.. If it gets to rough after they spawn I will thin out the population..

The idea behind the refuge is to have constant lighting or reverse lighting.. While the tank lights are on the refuge lights are off.

This will be a long process.. As I dont know much about fresh water plants. If just letting algea grown in the refuge isnt enough I will need to find an alternate plant that does the same thing as macro algea.. Prob some hardy plant. I have had some experience with Anacharis canadensis, seen HERE (http://www.pondplants.com/aisle39.html) . Any hoo.. I will post my results as I get them.

Ohh yea.. I have seen some Cichlid planted tanks of which I cant find the pictures.. There were a few that had some kind of plant that looked like it was growing on everything in the tank.. Like rock and drift wood.. I saw 2 types.. 1 just looked like short grass.. The other looked like either clover or mushrooms.. Anyidea what these could have been?

[jonah]

Originally posted by Mobious

Ohh yea.. I have seen some Cichlid planted tanks of which I cant find the pictures.. There were a few that had some kind of plant that looked like it was growing on everything in the tank.. Like rock and drift wood.. I saw 2 types.. 1 just looked like short grass.. The other looked like either clover or mushrooms.. Anyidea what these could have been?

Not sure of the plants, but Java Fern and Anubias are normally attached to rocks and driftwood. That would help against the fish digging them up.

Here's a couple of sites that might help with plants:

www.plantedtank.net

www.aquatic-plants.org

[chc]

Wow..... you're asking for a lot of trouble if you put peat into that substrate layer. Most American cichlids would have a ball digging all that up and generally trashing your tank. There's a reason why most experienced cichlid keepers don't spend much time messing with the substrate..... it's because the fish will move it around to their liking..... DAILY! Just a half an inch of any type of gravel will suffice. Also, the only plants (other than floating) they won't absolutely trash are java ferns and anubias types, and those don't root in the substrate but rather attach themselves to rocks, driftwood, etc..... so, the substrate type is irrelevant there.

A refugium is unecessary in a FW setup. You handle the algae problems (i.e. excess nutrients) with water changes in fresh water (not very practical in Salt due to water chemistry issues; remember all those trips to get R.O. water just to top off evaporation?). If you change at least 25% of your water each week, nitrate and phosphate production is generally kept in check. Also, you can add floating plants (water lettuce, water sprite, and duckweed are the best at sucking up the excess nutrients) without worrying about the fish trashing them too much.

Don't get too complicated here. That's one of the endearing qualities of cichlids, especially American ones..... they aren't particular about their quarters. Convicts especially are very hardy.

The wet/dry will work great if setup conventionally (bio-balls, floss pad on top, etc.). Also, keep the lighting to a minimum. There is no need for bright lighting; the fish won't like it and they don't need it (if that's your only option I'd defintiely go with a good growth of floating plants; the only problem there may be your filter if you have a built in overflow; is that the case or do you have a siphon overflow?).

[jonah]

I think the real problem is he'll have to decide between a cichlid tank with plants or a planted tank with cichlids.

CHC: what do you think of the lighting? Wouldn't that much light increase the algae significantly?