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accesscard18
04-26-2003, 07:01 AM
Got 4 Cichlids yesterday,, two is about an inch,,, the other 2 is about 1 1/2 inch.....

When are they ready to breed?????
oh also,,, how can you tell the sex?????
how should I breed them????



Please help out..thanks

DG
04-26-2003, 02:44 PM
you wanna id them first.

jonah
04-26-2003, 04:41 PM
Yes, you'll want to find out what kind they are first. Even then it's not always easy to tell.

accesscard18
04-27-2003, 11:31 PM
Oop sorry... It is yellow lab..sorry

stefanos.f
04-28-2003, 01:28 AM
You mean the Labidochromis caeruleus then! Well in my experience they are ready to spawn when they are 6-8 months old, which means about 2 inches big! All though I had once a smaller female holding and I also got 7 babies from her! But that hapened only once! Right now we have 4 different tanks with a group of yellow labs in every one! The first group that started 3 years ago, has now females that are able to produce 25 - 35 babies per spawn! Please notice that we never strip our females when holding, but let them release the fry when ever they feal they are ready for without having any kind of problems! About your other question now, it is allmost impossible to sex a yellow lab! I had a yellow lab once, that I still have today, and I was 100% sure it was a male! It seemed to be the dominant in a group of 9 fish of the same kind and had the most striking (yellow on the body and dark black on the anal, caudal and dorsal fins) colors I had ever seen! After a month or so, she was holding!!! Yellow lab are difficult to sex... untill u see one holding dont try to be sure about its sex! And about your last question now! U should try to breed them using the typical mbuna way! Provide lots of rocks, that form many caves, and try to keep them in an ratio of 3 females for every male in the tank! Hope I helped!

fOx
04-28-2003, 08:27 AM
Once again Stefanos and I are on opposite sides of the fence on the stripping issue. There is no scientific evidence to support the claim that stripping a female means they're babies will have to be stripped. In fact I raised this question at a meeting of local fishkeepers and many practice stripping (when needed) and are now on their third and fourth (or beyond) generation without problems. When asked about stripping the answer is always the same, if the female is not physically fit and holding the babies is taking its toll on her, then strip the babies. This gives the mother a better chance of survival (so she can breed again) and it ensures the babies don't get eaten or swallowed (which also happens amongst wild caught Cichlids so the RUMOR that stripping leads to eating cannot be true). Keep your options open, stripping female cichlids is a beneficial practise that needs to be done in many situations.
These babies are genetically programmed to breed. It is engrained in their physche, you cannot change that with physical acts. If this was the case, every human born by cesarean section would only be able to give brith through cesarean sections....

please keep an open mind, and do what is best your fish. Also read and develop your own opinion on this subject. I'm tired of hearing people preach from their soapboxes.

fOx

stefanos.f
04-28-2003, 10:06 AM
I am so sad about the poor fish in the lakes :rolleyes: How do they manage to make babies with out your help :rofl: I guess it must be the divers who help the situation! When a female that is holding, comes their way... they immediately strip her! Thank God that there are so many open minded people out there! :rofl2: Only one more question... How do I manage to keep everything going nice and with no problems in more then 55 tanks, breeding more then 40 species :confused: Oh... and I never strip females who are holding! Anyway since U like to be so open minded, PLEASE HAVE A LOOK HERE.... www.malawicichlidhomepage.com/aquainfo/no_stripping.html Please notice that a lot of the articles in this site are also published in FAMA! Thank you!

fOx
04-28-2003, 01:50 PM
Here we go again with this stupid Web page... THAT YOU OWN!!! :confused:
How do you keep up 55 tanks without any problem... I dunno, dumb luck? :rofl: The Vancouver Aquarium, the New England Aquarium and the Greater Toronto Zoo strip their females! Combined, they have hundreds of tanks.. without problems... you claim to have 55 and are a breeder (which means if people start breeding their own stock, sucessfully, by stripping their females, what happens to your business? :jaw: )

I'll side with the zoological experts and researchers thanks!

You're right about the open minded thing as stripping is a common and well observed practise. As for the comment about how the fishes in the lakes do it... how do you know what happens in a lake with millions of fishes? :rolleyes:

How many females in the African lakes swallow their babies, or die of starvation in the wild? It is a regular occurence which I will not risk in my tank. If I have a female that is holding for more than 14 days without letting her fry out, I'm going to strip her. In the wild no one will miss a female, or a batch of fry, that died while holding... in my tank it's a different story.
As I have said above, if your female is doing fine holding, let her hold. If she is not, then you need to think of alternatives. Only the healthiest and strongest females of the pack will breed, it's a well known fact that many females never breed in their entire lifetime.

I will not reply to another one of your arbitrary remarks until you post some factual information that is worth debating... I could be a child like you and revert to petty name calling (or I could keep pointing out the same Web site as evidence), but I think the people who know me (and realize that I wouldn't do anything to harm my fish) will respect my decision to simply debate the facts.

P.S. Here is a Web site for you (again many of these articles are published in FAMA, in fact the writer is a regular in the magazine) http://www.yatfs.com/Mouth%20Brooders.htm

Here is some more:

From the Greater Chicago Cichlid Association: "Why do some aquarists "strip" mouthbrooding cichlids?

Most mouthbrooding cichlid females will hold fry for 14 to 28 days. During this time, they may become ematiated because they don't eat while holding fry. There are several reasons to strip mouthbrooding cichlids:

1. To increase the brood size since the female may eat some portion of the spawn if you allow her to go to term.
2. To prevent females from eating/spitting out or losing the spawn prematurely.
3. To extend the life of the female and her productivity so she can have more broods in a shorter period of time. In an active tank, some stubborn females will continue to hold fry until they expire rather than release fry."

Web Page: http://www.gcca.net/index.htm?content=/faq.htm


The Brooklyn Aquarium Society says, "Some folks prefer to remove the eggs or fry from the female and strip her of them after a week or two and artificially raise them. This increases the chances of survival of the valuable fry since predation is eliminated and the fry are able to be easily fed."

http://www.brooklynaquariumsociety.org/Articles/MalawiCichlids.htm


Here is another well known Web site: "Stripping mouthbrooders is often times necessary"
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/stripping_fry.php

BY THE WAY --- I do not own, nor do I have anything to do with the above Web sites!

I could post more... but I am eagerly anticipating Stefanos response, as he has not been able to provide evidence to his claims thus far and I am guessing that is not going to change now....

fOx

p.S.S do not be afraid to strip your fish!

aharris
04-28-2003, 02:43 PM
Obviously this is a passionate issue.

The main reason why I keep fish is that I like to watch what they do. That's why I have cichlids.

If I stripped my females as a matter of course, there is a certain portion of their behavior that I will never get to see. Therefore, I will allow my females to hold whenever possible. If she eats a few along the way, then she eats a few; that's life. If she seems to be in direct danger of starving herself, I'll step in and strip her.

fOx
04-28-2003, 02:47 PM
Thank-you... that is my point exactly!!!

fOx

SGypsyMermaid
04-28-2003, 07:41 PM
fox and stefanos--you are obviously on different sides of the fence on this issue. you have both posted your opinions, so why not let it go? that's what this forum is about: sharing information and experience. we won't always agree, so why not just agree to disagree and move on without mean-spiritedness?

stefanos.f
04-29-2003, 03:11 AM
I promise I will be a good boy but since Fox is asking for proves, please let me answer to him one more time and then I promise I want speak about this subject ever again!

SGypsyMermaid
04-29-2003, 03:59 AM
you will never convince him and he will never convince you--no point in continuing.

fOx
04-29-2003, 08:00 AM
I never set out to change Stefanos mind, or convince him of anything. I just want to balance his one-sided view of this issue so that newbies and other less expeirenced people can make up their own minds on this issue... and not take the one person's personal opinion as gospel.

fOx

SGypsyMermaid
04-29-2003, 08:35 AM
it is possible...and preferable to present one's own views and present a more balanced picture without making personal attacks on the person with whom one disagrees.

fOx
04-29-2003, 08:51 AM
I agree...

stefanos.f
04-29-2003, 02:41 PM
So now lets take it easy and just let me explain! And I ll try to be nice and not attack anyone! :wink: Well Fox one thing for sure there are many people who think the way u do and I m not saying that they are wrong (yes sometimes u can save a fish by stripping the fry it has in its mouth). But there are also many people out there who think the way I do and prefer not to strip a female under any circumstances! I see it like abusing a fish, stressing it almost to death! Thank God I never had to stripp a fish for any reason, even though I lost some fry a few times! I know I could have more many in my pockets if I had stripped these females, but thats not the point! I dont keep so many tanks to get rich, I do it because I love what I do! Most of the female African Cichlids learn how to release correctly if given the chance! And I prefer to give them that chance! What I do is to remove the female after she is holding for about 14-15 days to a separate tank where she is all alone and let her release natural! If she swallows... no big deal, I m sure that she gets it a litle better next time and eventually learns how to do it right! Breaders use to stripp their females when holding because thats how they can get the maximum number of fry. It doesnt mean that its right just because breaders do so! I could also give u alot of ''stupid sites'' that prove that there are many people who are against stripping but on the other hand U would also be able to post more sites who use the stripping method and also believe its the right thing to do! Still I will give just a few sites, not to prove to U that I m right but only to show that its a method that has some bad side effects! This site for example says clearly that ''fry produced by stripping will grow up to be egg eaters'' have a look your self at www.thekrib.com/Fish/frontosa.html There are also more ''stupid sites'' on the net who are clearly against stripping! These sites below say that stripping a fish is like abusing it! Just have a look www.thetropicaltank.co.uk/mbuna5.htm or www.fishaholics.org/articles/keepingmbuna.shtml or www.cichlidae.com/articles/a151.html or www.animalnetwork.com/aquafish/library/articleview.asp?Section=&RecordNo=199 and many many more! Anyway lets leave the whole thing and everyone to his own opinion! After all since what I do works perfectly for me, why should I try to change it!

P.S I dont own the site www.malawicichlidhomepage.com but the moderator of the site told me to ask you what kind of proof U have to call the site stupid:confused: The site has the Golden Web Award and more than 30.000 visitors per month! Anyway maybe u know better! Have a nice day!

P.S.S To the moderator! I believe I was nice and didnt attack anyone by saying my opinion!

Tony
04-30-2003, 08:52 AM
Men the debate is interesting. I give it 3 stars well put together arguments. But it lacks in violence and threaths and name calling that should drive the conviction of your beliefs.It Is not there and should be. You need a few colorful four letter words. The ref/ moderator is too nice he should be siding with someone. This could have been a real good cat fight. Come on men show that cichlid killer instinct and rip the fins off use that testosterone for all it is worth. It is still not too late. A few more bad words and we could go for another 6 pages of debate. Excuse me for my interruption my emotions got away from me, it just came out. I guess the moderator is not going to stop any of this. Except tell both parties to play nice... Please keep going I love reading this stuff.:rolleyes: ..... Tony.

SGypsyMermaid
04-30-2003, 09:05 AM
what we do not need is some smartass resurrecting the argument after the mod has asked everyone to play nice.

Tony
04-30-2003, 09:10 AM
accesscard18 : your Labidochromis caeruleus are still juveniles give then a few more months to mature and then if your mix is good( male to female ratio) and conditions are right, nature will take its course and you will get them breeding. Just do not over feed and keep good water conditions. If you need a more detailed answer then post a more specific question and we should be able to help you. Cheers..... Tony.

Tony
04-30-2003, 09:29 AM
Sarcasm my friend / moderator. The very smart people who are suppose to answer the" question asked" are more interested in showing each other up. That they do not answer the newbie's question . They got off topic and started to rip in to each other. I was trying to point out that this has gone on long enough. Sorry to stir the pot ,but the moderator should not tell some one on a post they are a "smartass" then say play nice.Just having a little fun. After all we are here to help others and have some fun right?..... Tony.

SGypsyMermaid
04-30-2003, 10:04 AM
tony--you are quite right. i should not have referred to you as a smartass...however i would greatly appreciate it if you would not insert your sarcasm into situations where i am attempting to smooth ruffled feathers.

Tony
04-30-2003, 10:35 AM
Cool no problem!:cool: Tony.

tom
04-30-2003, 12:50 PM
Consistent with the spirit of civility that has characterized this board since its beginning, the moderator has politely asked parties to not launch ad hominem attacks.

But for those who might require an extra incentive to debate fiercely but free of such fallacies, or to refrain from taking swipes from some imagined ringside, I encourage you to please re-read the rules (the pertinent part of which really is just common sense) before posting a single message more on this site--assuming, of course, that you wish to continue participating here.

Thanks

Thread's closed.