Another proposal... two-tier rack... made of wood!

[BrownBullhead]

OK... so I looked into metal shelving at Wearing Williams... the corner posts cmoe to maximum of 6'0" in the E-Z-Rect line of shelving... I need 6'7" corner posts... and I don't want to get into cutting them... further to that, it was going to cost over $225 (CA$,or $175 US$) for the setup... so I think I will go with wood so I can customize the heights however I want.

Please remember from my previous post that my space the rack is to go into is 79" high, 53" wide, and 28" deep front-to-back. It's a former clothes closet with the doors removed, on a cement sub-floor in the basement of the house. A 150-gallon currently sits on the spot where i intend to slot my finished rack.

So for starters, I was drawing the basic shelf template each tank will sit upon. You can see the measurements, all in inches... and the orange lines are 2.5" wood screws.

I intend to use all "2x4" pieces which are accurately measured 1.5" x 3.5". I intend to use 8 of the 2x4 for the sides of the rack, and fasten the shelves to those sides. Below the bottom shelf, front-and-back, and between shelves, behind each tank, will be an additional post to distribute the load.

Please comment on this shelf design for now and let me know if you think this shelf will stay together as is or if I need to start from scratch right again. Please let me know.

CLICK THE THUMBNAIL FOR FULLSIZE IMAGE. You will need to maximize your browser window AND mouse over the image (in Internet Explorer) and in the lower right an icon to maximize the image to it's natural resolution will show. You will need to do this to ensure you view the image at its full resolution.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v245/BrownBullhead/th_PROJECT_WOODRACK_01_SHELF_REV-A.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v245/BrownBullhead/PROJECT_WOODRACK_01_SHELF_REV-A.jpg)

[Rockriverfish]

Sorry to hear that the metal shelving won't work out. If I am reading your plans correctly, you have the shelf made from 2x4's laid on the flat side. This will not give you the strenght to span the distance across the front. Even if you set them on edge, they will bow with that span and weight. You definately want something stronger for the span. I would go with 2x8 (on edge)for the shelves. Remember I am not a carpenter or an engineer, but, I think that would give you enough strength for a 48+ inch span.

I imagine that you don't want to block the view across the front with a middle leg, so here's how I would do it. Use 2x8 lumber on edge to construct a frame for the top shelf, and include a center joist across the middle running the long way. I know this will rob you of some space, but you need something pretty "beefy" to take the weight since there will not be a middle support in front. The bottom shelf could be 2x4 since you can add short legs / blocks under it without blocking the view. Or even just have the bottom shelf resting directly on the floor.

2x4's should be fine for the legs. Bolt 1 leg to the outside of each corner (preferably on the long side). For added strength you could put an extra leg on the short side of each corner. Bolt 1 or 2 legs to the back side of the shelf and 1 leg in the middle of each short side. Screws would probably be ok, but bolts are better.

Since lumber has most of its strength in compression, I would double up the legs by cutting lengths of 2x4 to fit in between the shelves. This way the weight is transfered directly from the shelf onto the 2x4 rather than just hanging from the leg.

Hope this makes sense

View of shelf and legs looking down.
http://www.cichlidforums.com/postimages/2005-10-27/117469-001.jpg

http://www.cichlidforums.com/postimages/2005-10-27/117469-002.jpg

[Glaive]

Wow never thought I'd need autocad for the fish forums. :lol:

Questions:
What size tanks are going into the "closet"? <footprint and height>

What hieght do you want the tanks at?

What I think I know:
2 shelves are needed so two tanks?

Honestly if designed properly 2x4s should be plenty. 2x8s might be a tad overzealous.

You should consider skinning it with at least 1/2 thick plywood. This would help spread the load across the shelf.

If you get the measurements in I would be happy to add design drawings to the mix.

[Rockriverfish]

Glaive - I believe he was planning on a standard 75 gallon tank on each shelf. Good point on the plywood.

Your probably right about 2x8 being overkill, but I would think 2x6 as a minimum for the top shelf structure, based on the desire not to have a middle leg supporting the front of the shelf. I just don't see a 2x4 joist holding 800+ pounds of weight across a 48" span. But as I said, I am not a carpenter or engineer. I just don't like suprises.

Looking forward to seeing your drawings.

[BrownBullhead]

This is revision 2-a to my plans for a wood aquarium rack. Please note, as some of you haev been suggesting, I CANNOT place the 2x4's "on edge" with the 1.5" edge facing sky, as opposed to my current "flat" design with the 3.5" flat side facing sky. If I do this, my cabinet shelve space will be too minimal to hold the 70-gallon (48 x 19 x 21) tanks I plan to place inside.

I am now using 2x6 for the corner posts!

Please see my design and let me know what you think. The schemes for shelf, side posts, front, and back of rack are now shown.

PLEASE... let me know your thoughts.

SHELF
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v245/BrownBullhead/th_PROJECT_WOODRACK_01_SHELF_REV-2-A.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v245/BrownBullhead/PROJECT_WOODRACK_01_SHELF_REV-2-A.jpg)

SIDE POSTS
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v245/BrownBullhead/th_PROJECT_WOODRACK_02_POSTS_REV-2-A.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v245/BrownBullhead/PROJECT_WOODRACK_02_POSTS_REV-2-A.jpg)

BACK
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v245/BrownBullhead/th_PROJECT_WOODRACK_03_BACK_REV-2-A.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v245/BrownBullhead/PROJECT_WOODRACK_03_BACK_REV-2-A.jpg)

FRONT
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v245/BrownBullhead/th_PROJECT_WOODRACK_04_FRONT_REV-2-A.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v245/BrownBullhead/PROJECT_WOODRACK_04_FRONT_REV-2-A.jpg)

[BrownBullhead]

My inspiration for the notching from shelves into corner posts comes from here... http://www.winnipegfishforum.info/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=1694&highlight=rack

Previously I had not implemented notching between the beams and corner posts. This notching will enable transfer of weight from the shelf beams directly into the corner posts, instead of relying on the screws / wood glue alone.

[BrownBullhead]

I have reviewed these concepts further... about how my 2x4 are laid "flat" ni my shelf concept, thus resulting in a given shelf being 1.5" thick.

It has been pointed out to me by multiple persons that having the 2x4 "on edge" instead of "flat" would result in greater strenght... but would result in each shelf becoming 2.0" thicker... and 3 shelves total (2 for tanks, plus top shelf acting like canopy) would result in net addition of 6.0" to total height, which messes me up...

However, if I could come up with hinge lids that are say, 6" / 12" split for 19" flat glass hinge lid, instead of the standard 9" / 9" split, that would save me 3.0" on each aquarium level, which equals the 6.0" that were added above...

However, this involves making my own lids... I wonder how feasible this is!?

[Rockriverfish]

How about going without the hinge on the tops. Maybe you could just slide the front piece of glass over the back. Or reversing the tops on one side so the plastic filler strip is in front, and then just cutting a small opening for feeding.

[RustyNut]

To support the roughly 1000lbs of weight of the 75g (incl Substrate and rock) your only choice is a 2x4 on edge. I just did a quick calc on them lying flat and they will fail on a 48" span.

Just to make a suggestion, you can stand a 2x3 on edge and withstand the 1000lbs but its really close - it does save you an inch.

[Glaive]

Honestly that seems the betterway to go. I think one could rig the lids if need be. It's not preyy but a heavy clear packing tape could be used, the kind with the re-enfroced strings. Used to make a "glass" sandwich along the seams. Like I said not pretty but it would work. If you made the two sheets 11 3/4 and 5 3/4 that would leave a good 1/2 for the tape to act as a hinge. Just apply the tape to both sides. In all honestly when I look at the "hinge" on my 55s top that's about what was done by the manufacturer.

Here's my ideas for construction:

The entire design assumes 2x4 construction. I didn't clarify the back but if one were to do so it would be best to treat it like the sides and just skin it to tie it all together.

Shelf:
If the measurements are off adjust them accordingly.
The little black lines mark the ends of the wood.
The 2x4s are assumed to be on end instead of flat.
For the upper shelf I would consider using hangers for extra strength especially where the middle "blocks" meet the center joist.
Since the bottom shelf would be on the ground it would not need hangers.
I would say that both shelves should be skinned in 3/8 inch plywood if not 1/2 inch.

http://www.cichlidforums.com/postimages/2005-10-28/117595-001.jpg


Sides:
I don't know why we didn't suggest reducing the shelf height, so now I propose it.
Idealy one would skin the sides and back with 3/8 - 1/2 inch plywood for "sheer" strength.
edit:
The top and bottom pieces in this pic are the shelves, you can see that the outer joists of the shelves rest on the posts.
http://www.cichlidforums.com/postimages/2005-10-28/117595-002.jpg

[BrownBullhead]

I have made "Revision 3.b" to my Aquarium Rack, Wood, Two-tier, 50" x 28" shelves. My revised diagrams will be complete by Sunday morning.

I have followed numerous suggestions from users on the forums where I requested feedback to my plans, and the 100% consensus was to build with the 2x4 "on edge," with the 1.5" ("2") sides vertically, and the 3.5" ("4") sides horizontally. This was not obvious to me in the beginning but I now understand why. My new plans are built as such.

Thank you for the feedback so far and I look forward to more of your comments!

[RustyNut]

You should also "Crown" your 2x4s so that the bow is up.

[Glaive]

Good to hear we were able to help.

[BrownBullhead]

Here's the diagrams for Revision v3.b...

Notice the 2x4 all "on edge". Anyway... how do you think 2 x 70-gallon would do on this rack?

Click the thumbnails to see the images.

You may need to "maximize" your browser window the thumbnail opens in, particularly if using Internet Explorer. Also, mouse over the image until the icon shown below appears, then click that icon, so the diagram shows in it's full resolution.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v245/BrownBullhead/max_icon.jpg

Here's the images...

Aquarium Shelf Module | Additional Vertical Supports | Rack Floor Base | Rack Top Canopy | Rear View | Front View

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v245/BrownBullhead/th_project_revision3b_image01_aquarium.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v245/BrownBullhead/project_revision3b_image01_aquarium.jpg) http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v245/BrownBullhead/th_project_revision3b_image02_addition.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v245/BrownBullhead/project_revision3b_image02_addition.jpg) http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v245/BrownBullhead/th_project_revision3b_image03_rackfloo.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v245/BrownBullhead/project_revision3b_image03_rackfloo.jpg) http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v245/BrownBullhead/th_project_revision3b_image04_racktopc.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v245/BrownBullhead/project_revision3b_image04_racktopc.jpg) http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v245/BrownBullhead/th_project_revision3b_image05_backside.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v245/BrownBullhead/project_revision3b_image05_backside.jpg) http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v245/BrownBullhead/th_project_revision3b_image06_frontsid.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v245/BrownBullhead/project_revision3b_image06_frontsid.jpg)

[Glaive]

Looking good, if it is at all possible I would look into skinning it with even a 3/8 plywood to act as a sheer panel. This would prevent the rack from twisting and leaning.

It's what prevents a house frame from leaning and if you can sneak it in here I think it would add significan strength to thw whole piece by tying it as one.

Also if you can do it adding a layer of plywood on the shelves will help distribute the load as will "blocking".

Sorry to beat a dead horse, I would rather go captain over kill than have a thread about structure failure.

[BrownBullhead]

For what it's worth, I now found out that the sales associate I spoke to at Wearing Williams misunderstood what I was asking about... and it turns out that the "EZ-Rect" Shelving does not stop at a maximum of six foot high corner posts. In fact, it appears quite modular in design. What the heck was this guy talking about?

http://www.eng-prod-inc.com/EP/images/EZRect1.jpg

[BrownBullhead]

To those who send me private message asking "How's the stand coming" and such forth, I've decided to hold off for now.

Long term, I may still sell the 150-gallon that is in the space where the "rack" was going to go, but if I do any more aquairum related stuff, I was thinking I would like to get a 72", 135-gallon, to go along a side wall instead.

On a side note... I actually DECREASED the amount of Tropheus I am keeping, one colony is gone (the Kiriza) so no need to press ahead for now. Also, trying to pay down some other debt before I worry about a new aquarium.

Thanks for all the feedback nonetheless.