Mbunas are caughing!!!

[joshuaisblink182]

I have a 45 gallon tank with 12 mbunas. They seem to like caugh. I mean like choking or gaging. Does any body know if it is an disease or waht is it??? My water paremeters are amoonia 0, nitrite 0 , and just today I got rid of my high nitrates. Thay have been at 160 for about a two week and now at zero. Ph about 7.9.

Thanks Joshua

[merlyn2221]

Josh: Sounds like they might be stressed over the nitrates. That's an awful lot of fish for that size tank! How often do you change water and clean filters? This could all be a factor.
My mbuna do this thing where they look like they are caughing from time to time, and I've noticed ones at all the lfs doing the same thing, so I gather it is normal. I do notice in my tank that they do it more and more as I need to do a water change.

It's almost like they are shouting at me, "My WATER IS DIRTY! Could you CHANGE IT PLEASE?" Right after the water change, they stop doing it except at irregular intervals. Then as soon as it's time again they start to do it.

I would just be careful to notice who is doing it, and how often. If its just one of them, maybe they swallowed a rock or something.

[Rudy]

Are they holding?

[joshuaisblink182]

No they are not holding because you can see them open and shut their mouth and there is nothing there. They are sick I just know it because I had one fish die when he was not eating and I seen him caughing also.

Joshua

[Rudy]

How old is your tank? Has it been cycled completely. What kind of filtration do you have?

[joshuaisblink182]

My tank is almost 2 years old and it has been cycled completely. I have a marineland emperor 280 w/ bio-wheel.

[matt1066]

Has the coughing subsided since the water change? Also are they eating?

Regards,

Matt

[joshuaisblink182]

It seems to be geting better I don't really see them caughing anymore, but just every once and a while. One has not eaten yet for 4 days. What should I do??

Joshua

[matt1066]

So you say all are eating but one? What is your tank temp?

Matt

[joshuaisblink182]

79 F. He's a red top blue zebra and he just stays in his cave, but you can se him and I know for sure he is not holding.

Joshua

[matt1066]

If it were me at this point, I would just let nature take its course. Keep up the water quality, feed some high fiber flake(spirulina based), and just see what happens. I would'nt upset a whole tank for one fish, unless you are sure of what you are dealing with. At this point it could be anything. If you have another tank, or hospital tank move him, I summize that by your situation that is not the case. So just let go and see what happens. Don't panic and do anything silly. Just wait it out, I had a Sci Fryeri who went two weeks without food before his death, think it was a systemic bacterial infection, but who knows. He was a new purchase and probably came in with it.

Best of luck, just sit tight.
:(
Matt

[joshuaisblink182]

Last night I threw in a little treat of brim shrimp because I have not done it in like 3 weeks. I just break one little block of and do little at a time. Well the one that was not eating went and put some shrimp in his mouth but then he spit it out. Do you think this is a sign oh him getting better?? Maybe he is still recovering from the high nitrate poising??

Thanks Joshua

[matt1066]

Hate to say it, but he's a gonner. :(

That is a sure sign of a systemic bac infection or more likely a parasite.
Please dont freak about the parasite thing, if all your other fish are OK and your water quality good, then do as I suggest and let nature take it's course. IMHO. Keep the water up to 80F.

Also, when did you purchase this fish?

Regards,

Matt

[joshuaisblink182]

I would accept that but all my fish are seeming to come down with it. I bought him a year and a half ago. There is nothing I can do am I to loose all 12 of my fish???

Help
Joshua

[merlyn2221]

[b:0253ae4207]Joshua[/b:0253ae4207]: Is the fish any better? If not here are some things to consider.

1) Could it have a parasite and that is why it's not eating? (Have you put any new fish in the tank before this incident? If so how long before? Did the fish show signs of a problem after the new fish were introduced?) If this is the case, then you need to use something like Hex-A-Mit or ParagonII or anything that has metronadiazole (sp?) in it.
IF NOT THEN:
2) What is the fish's diet? Is the fish eating more than 35-40% protein daily? What is its primary diet? (Too much protein in combination with high nitrates could have made the fish ill.)
3) Could this fish have developed a problem related to the high nitrates in the tank? (How long were they high? Was this fish a weaker fish to begin with? Was this fish the last one to be introduced to the tank?)

If the fish lived with high nitrates for awhile, then organ damage could have occurred, or a bacterial infection could have ensued, or both. Usually fish exposed to high nitrates (above 20ppm) have a greater incidence of illness than ones living with low nitrates. Over time the nitrates will cause major organs to malfunction, causing the fish to weaken and often succumb to some type of bacterial infection that it can normally fight off when it's healthy in good water.

Did you try any meds at all? You might want to make sure all your water parameters are all good, with nitrates down to 10-20ppm. Then I would start a broad spectrum antibiotic, like Ampicillex, for both gram negative and gram positive bacteria (since you don't really know what the fish has).
Be sure to follow the directions specifically and then do the water changes exactly as required. Sometimes the introduction of antibiotics will cause a lowering of the O2 level in the water, so make sure there is plenty of water movement. Ideally too, this medication should be done in a sick tank for 2 main reasons: 1) fish that don't really need the meds don't get them and later become immune to them, and 2) sometimes antibiotics will destroy some of the bacterial cultures in your filter. You certainly don't want that in your main tank, if it can be avoided.

If you decide against antibiotics (many people don't like to use them) then I would at least try a salt bath every other day for a week. Add the proper amount of aquarium salt to the tank, raise the temperature gradually to 84-85deg and wait a day, then change 50% of the water and repeat the process over again for a week.
Let us know how things are going.

[matt1066]

Joshua,

I thought your other fish were recovering nicely-Is it just one fish, or is the whole tank hit by this malady? Your other post said the other fish are improving. I don't know if I would want to add antibiotics to a whole tank for one fish. On the other hand if it is the whole tank, do as Merlyn suggests.

Keep us posted.

Matt

[joshuaisblink182]

The other fish still seem to eat. The other fish seem to wiggle in place though and they seem to be scracting on thing every once and a while. They have done this for months though? I have never seen any parasite at all. Why would they scratch?? I had put fish in two weeks ago and one got ich. I got rid of it in two days though no problem. I don't know what to do I'm not so worried that my whole tank is down with which the one fish is not eating, but I would like to stop the scrating.


Thanks Joshua

[merlyn2221]

Joshua: a certain amount of scratching is normal. Excessive scratching is not normal.
Excessive scratching could be caused by poor water quality, a toxin of some kind in the water, or ick or another parasite.
Even though you treated the tank for ick, it is still in there. Ick is a cyclic disease in fish. It chiefly attacks weak or stressed fish (like one newly introduced to the tank). By the time you see it on a fish, it has already been in your tank bottom maturing and spreading. Even though you don't see the "spots" the fish may be "flashing" or scraping themselves on objects because the ick is present on them and just not visible yet.

What did you use to treat the ick in two days?

[joshuaisblink182]

I used ridick+. I know everyone says that don't work but it has always worked for me. So what should I do?

Yhanks Joshua

[SGypsyMermaid]

[quote:bef2e3f941]The other fish seem to wiggle in place though [/quote:bef2e3f941]

that sounds like the "shimmies". take a look at this site:

http://www.theaquarians.net/ArticlesandWallpapers/fish_keeping_101__parasites.htm

and stay on top of those water changes--they're critical!! :wink:

[matt1066]

Could the wiggiling just be a display?

Regards,

Matt

[SGypsyMermaid]

[quote:2769ab2365="matt1066"]Could the wiggiling just be a display?

Regards,

Matt[/quote:2769ab2365]

if it's like shivering or quivering--it's display...but if it is like swimming back and forth without going anywhere, then it's probably the shimmies.

[matt1066]

Hi joshuaisblink182,

Any updates :?:

Regards, Oh, and by the way display is normal and a good sign

Matt