Got a Pund. Nyererei - no colour...why?

[TommyMagic]

I just got myself a pair of Pund. Nyerereis (1m 1f) and put them in my Mbuna tank, which also has a pair of CH44's as well. The thing is, the male is very dull looking, very plain silver looking with none of the strikingness I expected from the Nyererei.

Is this usual for Nyerereis when growing up? Will he mature into a vibrant colourful fish? Or is to do with the CH44 Male being in there etc? When I first got my CH44 he was a little dull looking and did eventually show his colour, but the Nyererei is even more plain than he was.

Also, do you know which variety of Nyererei this is? I have a feeling the label at my LFS said he was a Ruti is. version but I forgot to write it down and could be very wrong. Perhaps he looks normal for his variety and I am expecting something that is impossible etc.

Any advice would be appreciated. Here's the fish in question...

[StructureGuy]

Give him time to get comfortable in his new surroundings. At that size you should be quite a bit of color.

However, even adult victorians often do not show much color if they are sub-dominant to other fish in the tank.

Nyererei males can be pretty rough on the females. With only one female she might see a whole lot of agression at breeding age.

Kevin

[TommyMagic]

Yeah I had thought about that and would like to have picked up 2 females but I really only had space for 2 fish in my tank, i'm really pushing it already and may have to remove a couple when they all grow full size. But I understand the females sometimes stay a bit smaller so I could perhaps pick one up.

What's the likeliness that the Nyererei would become the dominant male? Out of all the fish i'd like it to be him but unfortunately we can't chose haha - but are Nyerereis likely to be dominants? Other species I have include: Afra, Demasoni, powder blue, white tail acei, Met esthere and the Vic CH44. At the moment I am having trouble identifying the dominant male. I think it may be the powder blue, he does seem to chase every fish whereas all the others wont chase certain one etc. But he is the largest fish right now because he is the oldest, so that may have something to do with that. The Afra and the CH44 are both getting more and more "dominant" as they grow.

[tires]

http://www.africancichlids.net/Articles/Pundamilia_nyererei/

maybe this web address can help you it has info about all pundamillia/islands

[SGypsyMermaid]

good link!

[fish speaker]

Originally posted by StructureGuy
Nyererei males can be pretty rough on the females. With only one female she might see a whole lot of agression at breeding age...

That was also a big concern of mine when I got them, but Armke's only had the pair at the time I ordered. They have been better than fine, constantly breeding, without too much aggression. I keep thinking about saving a couple of females from one of their broods, but they do so well, that I haven't done that yet. My male may not be the tank boss, but he doesn't take any edit from the others in the tank, that's for sure!

(can you tell I'm catching up on my forum reading?)

[TommyMagic]

Wow i'd almost forgotten about this thread but since you just replied fish speaker I figure i'd update...

Unfortunately the fish that I asked about turned out to not be in a good state at all, about a week after my last post here on this subject he began to look very odd, very weak swimming and being blown by the filter etc. I took him back to my LFS and they said that they would take him off me because they had a number of returns from the same batch of fry he was from. The LFS has since stopped taking any fry from the breeder it came from - I don't know much about it but there was obviously something wrong (perhaps hyrbids...?)

Anyway, about 2 weeks ago I popped in again and they had a new batch of Punds. in, much prettier looking - I took the dominant male and 2 females away and they are doing just great. One female has shown herself to be carrying eggs just this very morning and the male, whilst at the moment not being the dominant fish (Sp. 44 seems to be my dominant fish right now but they're still juvies so it changes, my Scolfoli mbuna sometimes seems it too) - but the Nyererei colours up (well, he goes jet black with red fins) quite often and seems to be challenging the sp.44 more and more for dominance.

Any idea what island species he may be, he litereally goes jet black with red on his fins (which are quite big)?

[fish speaker]

You wouldn't happen to have a pic, would you? I'm by no means the Vic expert, but it could be Ndurwa Point "Black and Orange"; "Ukerewe nyererei" (see my avatar...the one on the Armke's website, where I got him, doesn't show as much orange/red on the back); possibly sp. All Black Nyererei, Chamagati (I've never seen except in the Armke's photo archives). I'm assuming the store didn't have anything more specific? Others?

Glad you got a healthy group this time!

[SGypsyMermaid]

quite few species of victorian males turn jet black with red fins when they are tank boss. the subdominant males are usually prettier(the next 1 or 2 in line, anyway).

[fish speaker]

Originally posted by SGypsyMermaid
quite few species of victorian males turn jet black with red fins when they are tank boss. the subdominant males are usually prettier(the next 1 or 2 in line, anyway).

Interesting. That confirms the rumours I've heard that it's best to have more than one male in order to get the best colors. And it would explain, perhaps, why my male is less colorful now than he was (in the avatar shot). I thought it was just breeding display vs. everyday color, but it could have more to do with a change in tank heirarchy. If that's the case, maybe I _should_ grow out some of his fry...both to spread out the aggression, and to provide a challenger male?

Added by edit: Looking at my male after writing this, I'll go back to my previous assessment, that he isn't really jet black so much as showing the post-spawning, washed-out look. His "personality" doesn't fit with tank boss, either. Not sure who does, now that the #2 C. afra is dead, and my nyererei would be a contender, but he just acts like it would be too much work. :razz:

[TommyMagic]

Ah right, well with this in mind I may also grow out some of my fry from the Punds and perhaps from the SP.44 (female been holding for 1 week, will remove soon as I lost the batch last time because didn't get her in time).

I really want a stunning looking Pund :D

[StructureGuy]

Fish Speaker,

I had a conversation with some one that worked at Armke's and he indicated that they sometimes get a bit creative with their names for commercial reasons. Don't believe all these Victorians location names you hear and that definately goes for the "Ukewere Nyererei" (although it is a great looking fish no matter what you call it.)

Kevin

[fish speaker]

Which reminds me of something along those lines that I read in one of the New World forums (http://cichlidforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=10440)

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Rex Karr
a nice fish, but its not a "Ultra Rare Jumbo Green Terror With Lasers".
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Whatever its location name should be, they sold me a great fish, and I'm exceptionally happy with it. Of course, maybe they should just call it a Pundamillia nyererei, New Braunfels. :razz:

Still, it does look like a legit collection point: http://aexchange.addr.com/Pundamilia_nyererei.html

[Matt V]

I kind of like Pundamilia nyererei "with lasers". :D

that's one of the things that puts the Victoria keeper in a fun position. To further the hijack, in Malawi cichlids, I would cringe at the thought of mixing two different location variants of, say, Labeotropheus fuelleborni or Cynotilapia afra. I tend to cringe more so when it comes to Victorians due to the lack of new blood from the lakes of the basin.

so, given the 'creativity' in assigning their location and a desire to keep the gene pool as varied as possible while maintianing the natural diversity (ie not creating your own), how do we deal with commercial names like "Ukewere Nyererei"? Assuming that all of Armke's fish come from a fairly limited breeding stock and I as a breeder wanted to add a few females of the species from a different source, this naming makes it difficult to find more if the "Ukewere Nyererei" name is unique to Armke's.

I remember SGM somewhere saying that she had to stop typing as she felt a "Victoria Taxonomy Headache" (VTH) coming on... I guess it's a condition we just have to live with, though i would love to find a cure!!

[fish speaker]

http://www.cichlids.dk/arter/vis/1881/

Look what I found! (Of course, I don't speak German, but it LOOKS like this site lists it as an undescribed species. Hmm...)

[Matt V]

it doesn't tell you anything you don't already know (it's Danish, have a friend who speaks norwegian and as he says "close enough"). i can get you the whole translation if you want, but there's nothing there.

they do use the unspeciated nomenclature... in europe... interesting...

i tried probably the same google search as you did... your post comes up second, by the way, after the danish site.

[StructureGuy]

Originally posted by fish speaker
maybe they should just call it a Pundamillia nyererei, New Braunfels.

Love that quote!

It is not limited to Victorians, though. Take a Labidochromis sp "hongi" and line breed it to enhance the red in the "forehead" and what do you have? Why an "SRT Kimpuma" of course. (SRT = super red top)

I don't mean to pick on them, because they are an excellent source of cichlids. I guess that we have to forgive the salesman in these retailers a bit.

Kevin

[fish speaker]

Originally posted by Matt V
...it's Danish... your post comes up second, by the way, after the danish site.

Well, I still don't speak German.:razz: (But seriously, I really should have been able to figure that out)

I guess it shows how sad my life is, when I get excited about seeing my posts come up close to the top on the search engines. :oops:

[fish speaker]

Originally posted by StructureGuy
...I don't mean to pick on them, because they are an excellent source of cichlids...

My feelings exactly! A little salesmanship is to be expected, and when the fish are as nice as the ones I have gotten from them, I really, really don't mind.