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NEO_72
12-20-2004, 06:40 AM
Hi all,

Does anyone have a link or any info on setting up a sump? I'd like to set-up a heavily planted 30 or 55 to link to my 180 once I get it, and would like to work out the plans well in advance. Like whether I need to get the 180 drilled, what diameter hole(s) and where? Will the big tank overflow the one below if there's a problem or the return pump fails?

PS I basically know squat about it, and would like to know if others run their tanks this way? Is it worth the hassle? I think the water quality would benefit.

Thanks a lot!!

NEO_72
12-20-2004, 06:56 AM
Also, I would probably need to keep some algae eaters in the bottom tank, like otto's or something. Maybe raise feeders too. Do you think that's too much risk in introducing disease to the larger tank?

Thanks!!

chc
12-20-2004, 08:25 AM
What are you going for exactly? A filter or just another tank attached to your system?

NEO_72
12-20-2004, 10:00 AM
I think just another tank, or maybe both?

I thought that having a planted tank attached would improve water quality and oxygenation. I could glass off a corner for biological filtration with those rubber balls (see, I know nothing about this!) and route the water into the bottom tank through this section?...heavily plant the rest.....plus I thought it would be a cool project. It's just a thought right now. If you think it isn't practical, I'll take your advice, CHC.

NEO_72
12-20-2004, 10:04 AM
I've been looking at lots of plans for this sort of thing, but they are all on marine sites. I just wanted to see if anyone here had tried this for freshwater, so I can get a bare bones version, and learn from other's experience so I don't waste too much $$ in scrap :)

Glaive
12-20-2004, 10:29 AM
a search here on sumps (http://www.cichlidforums.com/search.php?s=&action=showresults&searchid=75040&sortby=lastpost&sortorder=descending)

Some of these should be useful.

Most seem to go incoming trap of sorts maybe some sponges in this.
Biomedia like ceramic or bioballs. <I think the bio balls are better cost wise.>
Refugium with lots of plants, usually a spot people consider raising fry.
lastly out going chamber/trap where it's all pumped back.

I would skip the plecos and the feeders in the sump, why put a pooping algae eater in an area that benefits from algae? You would only accomplish introducing ammonia after its removal area...

NEO_72
12-20-2004, 10:43 AM
Thanks for the info, Glaive.

As for the ottos or plec - won't I need to control the algae in the smaller tank? Won't the plant's ability to photosynthesize (sp?) suffer if they get covered with algae?

I would definitley prefer to just have plants though - they won't get sick and pass along disease....

abenez
12-20-2004, 07:49 PM
I've sen articles that claim the glass shrimp or apple snails are a good algae control in a planted tank... since there may be little or no fish to eat them.

chc
12-20-2004, 11:35 PM
The short response is keep researching, and don't make plans until you're absolutely confident you understand the issues. Spend some time on the reef sites....... good pictures and info to be had.

NEO_72
12-21-2004, 06:05 AM
Thanks - will do!

mouse6196
12-21-2004, 07:10 AM
Here's a drawing of my set up and pictures of my sump. It's now packed with plants and lava rock. I don't keep any algae eaters in the sump area as there is no algae to be eaten. The plants out compete it. Hope this helps.

mouse6196
12-21-2004, 07:11 AM
Here it is up and running....it is now packed with hornwart plants, and java moss. Works great.

mouse6196
12-21-2004, 01:29 PM
You can see in the above pictures, that the 90 gallon tank is drilled with a corner overflow. THe water drops down into the sump. With the baffles set up the way it is, the area where the plants are stays at the same level through evaproation. The end compartment where the pump is will fluctuate slightly with evaporation. With the corner overflow in the main tank, when the pump is shut off, or power fails, the water in the main tank can only drop an inch and a half. There is plenty of room in the sump to accomdate this avoiding the possibility of floods. With this system you can't flood the room in the event of a power failure. It's a very simple design. I pump about 1600 GPH through this system keeping it well oxigenated and clean. I keep hornwart and java moss in the sump (refugium area). I do have some snails in there but algae is not a concern. You can see the ares between the acrylic baffles where I put filter floss. My system is maintained mostly through biological filtration. I will get you an updated picture as now the refugium / sump is packed with lava rock and solid with plants. Makes for great nitrate remover as mine are almost always 0. I hope this helps. If you need help just ask.

I would not raise feeders in the sump as disease will spread through your whole system if present. Not worth it for the price of a seperate 10 gallon tank.

I'm not far form you and if you ever get out this way, you are welcome to come by and take a look at the system. I swear by it.

mouse6196
12-21-2004, 01:33 PM
Here's a picture of the corner overflow in the main tank. You can see the grates on the top. That's the lowest the water can drop in the event of a power failure. Just leave enough space in the sump to accomodate that volume of water and you're all set.

You'll also notice with this set up, all the equipment is out of sight and kept in the sump. I don't like the look of bubbles and there is no need for them in the main tank either as all the oxygenation is done in the sump. I just have the two water return in the main tank at the top. makes for a clean look.

mouse6196
12-21-2004, 01:38 PM
Heres' the whole system....

whispering wolf
12-21-2004, 05:53 PM
If i may so intruded. I to am looking to go that route, I have a 125g tank with a magnum 350 and a emperor 400. I am considering this filter URL=http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4344740015]filter[/URL]. Do you think this is a good filter and would it be unuff. I eventually want to replace all my filters for 2 wet/drys. Also with the way it is over flowed (i guess thats what its called) into the system does this have many draw backs. I know drilling a drainage hole would be better but just not possible at this time.

NEO_72
12-22-2004, 06:03 AM
Hey Mouse - thanks for all the info! Great pics and set-up. That really helps.

Yeah, we're not far at all. First I need to get a bigger place, then the bigger tank. I appreciate the offer to visit!

chc
12-22-2004, 11:20 AM
Originally posted by whispering wolf
If i may so intruded. I to am looking to go that route, I have a 125g tank with a magnum 350 and a emperor 400. I am considering this filter URL=http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4344740015]filter[/URL]. Do you think this is a good filter and would it be unuff. I eventually want to replace all my filters for 2 wet/drys. Also with the way it is over flowed (i guess thats what its called) into the system does this have many draw backs. I know drilling a drainage hole would be better but just not possible at this time.

They're not quite as fail safe as a drilled overflow, but if you buy a good one and keep it clear of debris you should have no issues.

NEO_72
12-23-2004, 07:08 AM
Okay - after looking around, I think this is what I want to do (basic diagrams below).

I want the bottom planted tank to look like a display tank as well, so I want the water level high. I'd also like the benefits of a trickle filter. So, what about building up an open-topped rectangular chamber in the back left corner that extends higher than tank level, full of bio-balls. I could place a small divider in front of the bottom of this section in which to place a sponge to screen water entering the planted bottom tank. I'd also put a false back in the tank, an inch or so lower than the tank height to allow run-off, leaving 4-6" off unused space, which would prevent the top tank flooding the bottom tank (I would calculate the volume of space req'd). And then a pump to return the water.

For the top tank, I was thinking of using a siphoned overflow box instead of drilling.

I just have a few questions:

- I think the false back in the bottom tank prevents a flood in the top-down direction? What material is easiest to use/cut etc in making the triangular chamber, baffle and false back? (glass/acrylic/plexi-glass?)

- If the overflow above gets clogged, how can I prevent flooding the top tank? Can a second box be added for redundancy, with it's own line, and set to drain from a higher water level so it would most often be inactive except for emergencies?

- I have canister filters and a powerhead/filter that I plan to continue to use. Could I use one of my Fluval 404's as the return pump, and have it's intake below and it's outflow above?

Thanks a lot for your help guys!

NEO_72
12-23-2004, 07:11 AM
And:

mouse6196
12-23-2004, 08:26 AM
If the overflow clogs, what ever water is in the lower tank will be on your floor. I use to use overflows but after several floods I stopped. You can get a tank drilled for about 15 bucks a hole. I would drill for sure. There's a guy in Guelph who can drill your tank. Let me know if you need his contact info. He can set you up with the fittings etc too. Overflows clog easily with debris, plats etc. I don't like them myself.

NEO_72
12-23-2004, 08:31 AM
edited - see below

mouse6196
12-23-2004, 08:31 AM
I think the fluval idea would work but you may want more water flow than that. I have a MAG18 pumping about 1600 GPH through a 90 gallon tank. That's not too much at all. I have it running through 1 inch piping so the volume is high but the current is low ...if that makes sense. I use a fluval at times just normally on the lower sump.

NEO_72
12-23-2004, 08:42 AM
Does a hose run direct from the drilled hole? Can this not clog? How is the one better than the other? (Not that I don't believe you :) I've never actually seen a drilled tank....and thanks for the offer of the contact info - I'm still a ways from getting the tanks.

About the pump - is the MAG18 (or similar) expensive? Submerged?

NEO_72
12-23-2004, 10:25 AM
Well, I'm off till Jan 3rd, with no PC at home, so I'll talk to you guys in the new year. Happy Holidays!!!

mouse6196
12-24-2004, 10:23 AM
A pump like that is about 150 bucks but eBay has them all the time used for around 100.

The hole I have drilled is a 2.5 inch hole. After the bulkhead (fitting) is attached, it holds a 1.5 inch PVC pipe as a drain. This is a large drain and hard to clog. Overflows tend to have smaller pipes. I'll try to get some closeups of the drilled hole,, fittings, overflow etc to give you a good idea of how this all works. I'll have to get the picks after Christmas (2 days).