DIY Cannister Filter

[NEO_72]

Hi everyone, if you're intersted, go check out this link:

http://www.petfrd.com/forum/articles.php?action=viewarticle&artid=87 (http://http://www.petfrd.com/forum/articles.php?action=viewarticle&artid=87)

It's a good idea for your own filter. I don't even need another filter, but I'm going to try one anyway! Just for the fun of it.

The key is just finding a perfect container.

Enjoy!

[Glaive]

working link (http://www.petfrd.com/forum/articles.php?action=viewarticle&artid=87)

Cool beans Neo, looks simple and effective.

[NEO_72]

Thanks for fixing the link, Glaive.

Yeah, I think you have to vamp it up a bit - if you're going to bother, you should get a better pump, and make sure the head is sufficient - but really so simple. Man, I'm always floored when I see outside the box....

Now if I could make my own stand.....the IKEA stand of stands...

[Glaive]

Stands are pretty easy neo, just need:

Materials:
2x4s<doesn't have to be pressure treated as that stuff is reallt nasty>

1/2 - 3/4 inch plywood <could get a or b/ d grade where one side has a poor grade aka looks ugly and one side has a nicer grade aka looks pretty>

3 inch wood screws <aka something beefier than dry wall>

1.5 - 2 inch dry wall screws

Tools:
Circular saw
Drill with screwdriver bit.
Level

Toughest part is making sure it's level. If you had one a table saw would be better than a standard circular saw.

Rough idea:
Frame it up with 2x4s.
Use plywood as shear panel.

2-3 3 inch screws per 2x4 joint and smaller screws for attaching ply wood every 6 inches or so.

The 2x4s would bear the load to the floor and the plywood would prevent shearing and twisting. May considering how you would want it finished ie natural wood or painted. The design in my head could easily incorporate shelves and doors though doors would need additional hinges and handles.

All in all it would be way cheaper and more sturdy than any of the aquarium furniture you'd buy. No offense intended to anyone with very nice looking premade stuff, it just doesn't compare.

If you really needed it in the future I could draw up a rough sketch if you provided dimmensions and tank size.

PS your welcome on the link

[maddyfish]

I couldn't get the link to work. Any ideas?

[highplainsdrifter]

A simple yet seemingly effective device! I'll have to keep this one in mind as my old-school whisper HOB's are in the last phases of their functional being.

[maddyfish]

I got it to work now. Any ideas for a container?

[Glaive]

probably any plastic container that can seal airtight...

Was thinking those kitchen storage containers with the flip latch lid may be decent.... May even chain a couple together make the first sponges, the second bio balls etc...

[jennigypsy]

this is SUCH a COOL idea....


oohhh...I can't wait to try it...

[NEO_72]

Glaive - thanks for the info on the stand. I really want something that's a fusion of smoked glass and brushed steel - I doubt I'd be able to home brew that one, But I might take you up on that offer if I ever get a basement and need to save $$ - thanks!!

Your idea about chaining the canisters sounds cool. See, brainstorm! Ideas just get better!

Other mods that would be useful - valves on both lines, or some kind of quick-disconnects to make servicing easy and DRY.

Dark tubes to inhibit algae growth.

A much better pump if you plan to chain them.

Question - if you made a strictly biological filter, would it still nedd regular cleaning to release trapped waste in the media? I've heard people talk about filters they don't bother cleaning for months - doesn't seem right intuitively, but it would be great.

[Glaive]

I think it would depend on the filter for the intake. a sponge one like those on some reversed powerheads would probably get you a month easy<probably more. My fluval cannister gets cleaned once every month.

I pull all the media and check it, only the sponges have needed rinsing. The ceramic rings have always been fine as has the basket with my crushed coral.

[Glaive]

I thought about valves as well, deffinetly a must for maintenence. Black lines good.

Though I wonder if certain algaes might be benificial for breakdown of nitrates...
On that line why not have a refugium of sorts with plants and let it be clear.

If you did go with sponges in the first container that would be the container I'd clean monthly. Clear containers might make deeming maintenence easier.

One could put in a center wall to force water dirrection.

Could build em in plastic screw top containers. I think a picture for an idea is coming lol.

[NEO_72]

Yeah - I definitley thought of forcing the water flow. If you bought two identical containers, you could butcher one to make an insert for the other. A few cut-outs, and you'd control the flow path.

I'd also use some of that cheapo netting to bag my loose media - easier to manipulate. It's like reinventing to filter....but the guy is right - nothing beats doing it yourself ;) Keeps you busy, anyway!!

** Man, I run two Fluval 404's on my tank, and I clean them both weekly. Do you think I could get away with less cleaning?

[Glaive]

Neo I assume the intake side of those is teh sponge side and then what 4 media baskets on the other side?

I would guess that you could easily clean em bi monthly alternating them each week, also what's you tank size neo?

For cleaning I just use the water in the cannister so as to not mess up the sponges.

I also had a 204 on a 20 long with other filters so my load is probably less than yours. I would deffinetly say as long as teh flow is not restricted every other week alternating.... Try not to clean both at teh same time in case of accidental bacteria kill off/die off, that way you always have a good one running will prevent any major re-cycle.

The longest mine has gone with out a cleaning was a month and a half and it could have gone longer if need be.

[Glaive]

I messed up pic below edited for flow dirrection:oops:

[Glaive]

Legend:
Blue >> water lines
Red >> valves
Brown >> screw on lids
Black >> jars/containers and siliconed partition
Orange >> return pump

Flow:
Tank >> 1
1 >> 2
2 >> 3
3 >> tank

What would make this a canister instead of a sump really would be the lack of air, the tank would have to be well oxygenated for this to work.

First jar would have sponges which harbor bacteria and catch detris/particles.

Second would have bio material, such as bio balls or ceramic rings.

Third would have plants and the return pump.

I'd leave all three as clear glass and provide light for the third 24/7 so that the plants would always be oxygenating. On the side, with the plants consuming CO2 constantly it would help maintain pH as CO2 lowers it.

[Glaive]

DIY Canister

[NEO_72]

Cool man. I guess you're not at work right now? ;)

I'm going to try just one phase, or possibly two. How much does the series effect kill the flow rate? Do you just subtract the distance of the water flow from the head? Or is there also resistance....

**Yeah, my Fluvals are setup that way. I only ever clean the sponges - I leave the bio ceramic alone. I tried a bi-weekly rotation before, but then got scared because I'm overstocked....

Why do you say the tank would need to be well oxygenated?

[NEO_72]

Dude, I might try it this way:

[NEO_72]

Just kiddin Glaive - I really think you're idea is great!!

Have a good weekend!!

[Glaive]

Yeah a mermaid wonder SGM willt ry out for the part :sygypsy:

Other thought I missed was o-rings for the lids and then for maintenance you kill the pump hit the valves flip it all over and unscrew the lids.

I figure if a fluval 204 is roughly a gallon and does 180 ghp then one could go with 1/2 gallon containers and push 250 gph easily.

The lines would probably need to be at least 1/2 inch. One could put a sponge over the intake or a strainer like a fluval to prevent large detris and fish from entering it.

One could add extra chambers or even an inline heater unit.. This might even be an acceptable option vs a sump for a large tank. Just slap in one of these and a hob for polishing.

[Glaive]

Now I wish I had a tank to try this out on lol gonna have to do some web surfing for online costs.

[Glaive]

US plastics (http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/default.asp)

That is an excelent online source for materials for a project like this. While more geared towards large orders they seem to allow smaller orders.

Between that site and Big als
One should be able to make a 3 stage cannister <1/2 gal/stage> with a flow close to 150 gph for around $20. If done correctly even with that lower flow rate I see no reason that the diy conister wouldn't whooop the tar out of say a fluval 204 <picked for simular flow rate>

When I was looking I figured that ~$40 in supplies minus pumps and media could make around 10 1.5 gallon 3 part chains.

For cheap pourous media I might suggest lava rock of the grilling variety which I believe goes for $3-$4 for 6-7 pounds an estimate of 2 bags at say $8.

I'm sure I've seen cheap stand in sponge from walmart for cheap, couldn't find it atm though.

This seems like it would be a very good project for people with a butt load of tanks.

If one had existing plants they could cultivate themselves I don't see why 10 of these can not be done for under $200.

If one was doing this for just one tank and on a tighter budget I could see this costing maybe 14-15 bucks... And the versatitlity is pretty amazing really.

Excelent Job on ya Neo, for comming up with this and stirring brain cells.

Something like this may be one of the only feasible/cost effective ways to filter my 600 gallon dream tank. <still a long way off.

[cich1]

good post NEO:ok:some great ideas there.(especially like the second diagram:D)

[crazyfishlady]

Yeah, except I think you'll need the weed before the mermaid.
Or maybe there's a cannister of brownies after... I can't remember.

[Glaive]

What that SNL skit "You can put your weed in it." or some thing like that.

[chc]

Originally posted by Glaive
What that SNL skit "You can put your weed in it." or some thing like that.

Ha, ha! I forgot about that one!

[Glaive]

lol speaking of "plants" who here uses their tank water to fertilize thier plants?

[NEO_72]

Well, I bought a small pump - $30 - RIO 600 or something. You'll find the head on these smaller pumps disappointing!! At zero feet, it's 200gph - at 3', it's 50....better place it as high as possible....

Mmmm, brownies!!

[Glaive]

Oif possible place it at mid tank height.... A new shelving diy project ;)

[Neal]

I was just thinking.......wouldn't it be possible to create a simple little canister filter like this and just borrow some gravel and bio-rings from an already established tank and canister filter? Would this amount to an instantly cycled tank?

I am thinking about setting up several 10 gal tanks to use as grow out tanks and for quarantine purposes. Couldn't I just fabricate small canister filters and use media from established tanks?

[NEO_72]

My experience with this DIY project - crap. The small pumps have horrible head. It's not an easy sytem to disconnect for servicing while keeping water where it's supposed to be (not on the floor;)

Any stress I placed on the hoses physically while moving it around caused my silcone seals to rupture. My gf got a big kick out of the whole thing!

If I were you and wanted cheap, ready filters for QT etc, just use a small powerhead with a quick filter attachement you could always run on your main tank until needed, or run a sponge filter in your main tank and then swap it out as needed. Both would do the trick.

[NEO_72]

Originally posted by Glaive
lol speaking of "plants" who here uses their tank water to fertilize thier plants?

Hahaha - almost a year later I see this. Yeah, I started doing that some time back for my bonsai tree and house plants. As long as you haven't added any chems, you get good ferts in there.

I guess you do it too?

[Neal]

Thanks for the warning. I had been wondering about the aquaclear quick filters. Don't they use some sort of filter cartridge that has to be changed out frequently? I'm really not familiar with them. Is it possible to fill them with a type of media that gets a good colonization of bacteria?

I have been using my tank water to water plants for years. Its great stuff! I water all of my house plants with it and I also like to dump it in my garden. I get fantastic tomato production when I keep my garden soaked in tank water.

[NEO_72]

The ac powerhead's quick filter is just like an intake strainer wrapped in some floss and then covered with black plastic larger strainer on the outside. I have one to supplement the tank on my 40 gallon (just used it to instantly cycle a 5 gallon QT for some barbs, now it's back on the 40).

Not much room for customization. You could fill the inner strainer ( about a 1/2" diameter tube) with some crushed ceramic. I personally use my own replacement floss instead of their prefab ones. But it does work ni a pinch. More mechanical than bio, but it would suffice for a small tank, and still be functional in your main ones. A sponge filter drvien by an air stone would be more effective at bio, and probably cheaper - but also more unsightly to keep primed in your show tank, unless you have a sump.

With either, just bring some gravel over into the QT as well (although not for hospital QT).

[NEO_72]

You could also just run a small HOB, like a AC 30 or 50 off your show tank, and swap it over to your QT. Doesn't take up your in-tank space that way. And you can customize what you put in it. You would get more benefit in your main tank while it was being kept primed.

<<once I get a house I want a garden too>>

[Neal]

I guess I'm just looking for an easy way to set up a 10 gal and have it instantly cycled by using media that has been running in the main tank. I really don't like the hobs for some reason. I have a couple of them and, in fact, that is what is on my 10 gal right now. I really don't want one on my main tank because it means I have to cut another hole in the top to make it fit. I don't much care for the looks of a sponge either.

Right now, I have two powerheads, a fluval 404, a heater, and a light all plugged into one electrical outlet. I would prefer not to plug anything else in at that outlet.
What about placing the filter media from a small hob inside of my Fluval 404 and then I could just pull it out and stick it back in the hob when I need to use it. Would it have colonized with sufficient bacteria to adequately filter a 10 gal?

[NEO_72]

Well, that's almost exactly the same. The media doesn't know what filter it's in. You can use whatever media you want in that case. But you'll be sitting by with a mostly unused HOB most of the time. Filter redundancy is always a plus. I have a glass tops on my tanks, so an extra cut-out isn't a problem. Then some duct tape to cover it so that the escape artists don't get ideas ;)

[Neal]

yeah, I see what you're saying. I like the idea of filter redundancy and it really wouldn't be that much of a problem to cut another hole out of the back. Escape artists are exactly my concern, but I suppose I could plug it up with something. I just went and measured the distance between the back of the tank and the wall and I have 2 15/16 inches. Surely not enough room for a hob. In the house I used to live in, the tank stand was on a carpeted floor and it was impossible to move it at all while full of water. Now I have hardwood floors, so I think there's a chance that I could slide it out from the wall a bit. Perhaps the hob is the way to go. I think I'll go ahead and put one on there. I have one that is running on my 10 gal right now, but I intend to set up a couple more 10 gal tanks, so I'll need more hobs. I have one that came with a kit that I bought for my daughter years ago, but it was used for several years and may not be in the best condition anymore. I think I'll just go buy a new one. I suppose that if its going to be running on my 75 gal part of the time, I should get the largest size that would be interchangeable with a 10 gal. How big is too big for a 10 gal?

[NEO_72]

Depends what you're housing in there. Fry wouldn't want an ac110 (500gph ;)

I'm only familiar with the GPH for the aquaclear line - you can run them full on the 75, and down to 1/3 the flow on the 10 gallon.

Model full choked
AC20 100 33
AC30 150 50
AC50 200 66

So you have choices depending on what you want to spend - I think they're only a few dollars apart. I recommend these, as they don't have gimmick-y filter cartridges you need to work around. Just open an open media cavity that lets you put any media you want in there (but the media supplied is fine).

Good luck! And careful moving the tank out a couple inches!!

[Neal]

Thanks for the info. If you have one of these AC models, would you mind measuring it and letting me know how much room I need between the tank and the wall? I really don't want to put too much stress on the stand by trying to move it. I'm afraid it may be so heavy that it might crack the wood or cause other structural damage if I have to move it very much.

[NEO_72]

Definitely something to consider first! I'd be a bit nervous too. A 75 weighs enough...

I have an ac70 @ 300gph, so it would be a little bigger. Let me see if I can find specs for you online.

[NEO_72]

link (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B000260FUM/002-8791699-6506447?v=glance)

So the AC 50 appears to need 2.5". The same site has the ac 30 at the same witdh of 4" total, but doesn't say specifically how much clearance. I would say it would be the same at 2.5".

You were right around there, right? Be a tight fit.

EDIT - ah, you've got almost 3". Should be fine.

[Neal]

That's good news......it leaves me with about 7/16 to spare! I really didn't want to try to move this tank while its full of water. I don't have many options for places to purchase a filter as the nearest fish supply store is in El Paso, Texas, about 200 miles from here. I think I may be going there this weekend, so I'll pick one up and get it running on the 75. I wonder how long it would take for bacteria to get established in it? Probably about 6 weeks or so? Maybe I can just add a new hob to the 75 and set up a new 10 gal every six weeks. You said that these AC models are able to accept any type of media you wish to use. I see from the link you provided that they offer foam filter and carbon. What are the other options?

[NEO_72]

They come with a sponge, carbon (which I only run to clean out meds) and some cermaic for bio. But the media stacks in a big cavity, so you can fill it up however you'd like.

You have 8 chambers in 4 trays in your 404. Buy some sponge at your LFS, cut to size for the fluval, and start some going now. Then each time you need to set up a new 10, add the sponge and a nylon bag full of gravel to the media in the 10's filter. Good to go. Just check the levels for the fist week - maybe do twice weekly w/c's.

But depending on how many 10's you're going to do, and how close they'd be to each other, and how often you'd be tearing them down and setting them back up - one decent sized air pump will run a bunch of sponge filters. Could be cheaper than 20 something bucks a tank for the AC's. I personally would buy a few AC's anyway just to have them. But if you want to reduce cost, it's sopmething to consider.

I'll leave you to it - I'm posting from work. So good luck! :)

[Neal]

Finally purchased the AC 30 and got it running in my 75 last night. It turns over 150 gph, so it should help with filtration in the 75 for a while and then can be cut down for reduced flow and slapped on a 10 gal for maternity or quaratine tank. I ditched the carbon and just filled it with the included biomax and added another bag of biomax mixed with some of my established tank gravel.

I barely had enough room for it between the tank and the wall. It is actually touching the wall and was so tight that I had to force the lid back onto the AC30. I needed about another 1/8 inch to make a proper fit and I tried to move the tank stand out that far, but as soon as I applied any force to it, it made a creaking sound that I didn't like, so I just left it where it is. Don't want to break my tank stand by trying to move it.

In my 75, I now have two Aquaclear 802 powerheads running my UGF and they move 400gph each for a total of 800gph. I also have installed a Fluval 404 which moves 340gph, and now the AC 30, moving 150gph, so my tank is turning over water at a rate of 1290gph. Fish seem happy and water looks good.

[NEO_72]

Great news - awesome man! Yeah, just jam it in - moving the tank is a scary thought.

And just to be technical - I have 2 404's on my 75. They say 340 gph, and they list a maximum distance from the tank rim(4 or 6'' I think?).

The height the water has to be pumped is the 'head'. You might know that. Hagen doesn't say "340 gph at 4' head". THAT would be a good gph. They just say 340 gph max flow. I would assume that the actual head (in my case about 4') lowers that number substantially. You could be a superstar and pump out water into a bucket of know qty and time it to be certain. But I think just being a member of a cichlid forum might be all the nerd you can handle ;)

Then there is another reference in the manual that while gph from the pump is 340, the water circulation through the media is less (high 200's I think)....so just beware - mfg's get away with stating things that aren't always the truth.

[Neal]

Yeah, I was thinking about all of that this morning after I wrote that post. I was trying to imagine the flow out of that AC30 filling up a 150 gallon container in an hour and it just didn't seem like it flows that much. Those 802 powerheads do move a lot of water, but I don't have any idea if they can actually blow out 400gph. Probably much reduced after sucking through all that gravel. Regardless, my tank is now moving more water than it ever has, so that is probably a good thing.

I have one 10 gallon fry tank set up right now with 25 fry in it, so I need to start thinking about getting another ready for the next batch of fry I intend to keep. Also been looking at some larger tanks to start moving these growing fry into. I guess I'll just keep adding new HOBs to my tank as I use the established ones for setting up other tanks. Will probably continue this procedure until it becomes ridiculously absurd to add another tank in my house and will then start thinking about plan B.

[NEO_72]

Originally posted by Neal
Will probably continue this procedure until it becomes ridiculously absurd to add another tank in my house and will then start thinking about plan B.

Hahaha:D

And yeah, I think you have enough filtration. I was just saying the numbers come in lower than we think. And 10 times an hour as the mark doesn't really draw the whole picture, because it doesn't take into account the media volume and type. You can get by with less volume and better quality.

[Glaive]

Ideas:

Eventually one has to clean under the UGF plate. To avoid this reverse the flow of your 802's and prefiler with a sponge. This will help keep the ufg plate and the gravel cleaner and in turn your tank will be cleaner.


As for a lot of small tanks, I have every intention of running 5-10 20 gallon longs with tang dwarfs. I was going to make myself a 58 gallon rubbermain sump to filter all of them.

Pros:
More stable parameters.
Superior filtration.
Better gas exchange.

Cons:
Potential disease transference
Might be a pita to work out the returns off of one pump.

[Neal]

Just thought of an excellent solution for my need to have extra filters available for slapping onto a 10 gal materinty/fry tank. Rather than take the AC 30 off of the 75 to place it on a new tank, I will simply purchase a new AC 30 whenever I need one and transfer the media basket from the one on the 75 to the one on the 10. That way, I'll always have another set of media maturing on the 75. And....I won't have to fool around with trying to get that AC 30 on and off of the 75 because it is a very tight squeeze between the tank and the wall.

Glaive: You suggested running the 802s in reverse mode in order to keep the UGF cleaner. I really like the surface agitation I get from the 802s and I'm not too enthused about the idea of having sponge filters attached to them.....for aesthetic reasons, mostly. I'm wondering if I could simply reverse the flow for a few hours prior to vaccuming the gravel. Would that be sufficent to push some of the crud out from under the plate? Also, I'm wondering if reversing the flow like that would cause harm to the benefical bacteria that are established in my gravel. I can't think of a reason why it would, but I don't know for sure.

[Glaive]

you could try reversing the flow while you gravel vac, but keep in mind you will eventually need to get under the plate.

One other suggestion is to snake a tube down the upflow tubes after gravel vacing that side and see if anything comes up.

[RustyNut]

I'd seriously consider reversing those 802's its a huge benefit not to have to tear down annually! You can get it down to about every three or more years with reverse!

If you can see you tank bottom glass, then monitor the crud build up underneath and also to attempt removal/reduction.... You can also try backflushing the gravel by snaking a hose down the uplift and full blast it.... You WILL get some out.

Once you see a UG with powerheads that turns bad you'll never consider anything but reverse flow again! It is a significant improvement!!!

the AC30 trick sounds good!

[Neal]

I've been running this UGF with two 802 powerheads since July of 1997....8 years and 3 months...and have never torn it down and cleaned out from under the plate. So far, I haven't had any negative side effects. I do regularly vaccum the substrate and have occasionally stirred up the gravel and vaccumed way down deep. Also, on occasion, I have removed the uplift tubes and placed my siphon hose over the holes in the plate in order to suck water from underneath. I can't see under the bottom glass, but I have stuck my finger into the hole and felt around under the plate and have never felt anything under there.

When I first decided that I wanted to set up an aquarium, I had absolutely no experience, so I started making phone calls to various fish stores to find out how to do it. Almost everyone I talked to advised against UGF, stating reasons such as build up of debris under the plate that would eventually lead to a lowering of pH. I was convinced that I should steer clear of undergravel filtration and had been talked into going with other choices. Then, I called Armkes to discuss purchasing fish from them and asked about their recommended form of filtration. I was informed that UGF was the way to go. This really surprised me because absolutely nobody else I had talked to had given me this opinion. I told Keegan that I had talked to dozens of knowledgable fish and aquarium dealers and they had all advised against UGF. His response to me was that he and his dad had been doing this for decades and used nothing but UGF in their tanks. He said, "Go to those other stores and look at their tanks and then come here and look at mine. Then, you decide what you want to do." I did exactly that and was quite impressed with Armkes tanks, so I took his advice and have not regretted it since.

I use a crushed granite substrate that I purchased from Armkes and it is pretty finely crushed. Not as fine a sand, but the particles are quite small and I think they prevent anything from going all the way through to get under the plate. My water parameters are always good and I have not seen any lowering of pH in all these years. I do get a build up of crud in the gravel and whenever I have moved the rocks, there is always some crud underneath them. But, it is usually near the surface and rarely penetrates the gravel very deeply. I'm certain that there must be some buildup underneath the plate, but it has not presented a problem for me in over 8 years. Maybe most of it gets sucked right back through the powerhead and is blasted back into the tank. Now that I've added the Fluval 404 and the AC30, my water definately seems cleaner, but I am happy with the UGF as it is. In fact, when I set up new tanks, I will do them exactly the same way I've done this one.

[RustyNut]

I was a UGF lover at one time.... you've done all the same things I did and I had never experienced a problem. In fact, your reply and your ingenuity of waste removal from under the plate, rival my own cleaning rituals. But its the day you tear it down and see just how much build-up there is that you will swear off on the UGF... When kept clean they can be absolutely WONDERFUL filters. But sadly a teardown is eventually required. My compliments to you going 8 years.... That says alot about your skill as an aquarist and sensitivity to your fishes needs.... Just keep in mind that when UGF's go bad, they do so overnight! The losses in 24-72 hours can be staggering and most people don't recognise what the problem is right away.

I not trying to sway your mind on USING the UGF, but please trust us all when we adivse you tear-down and clean it at least once in a while!

What you didn't state was how long without a tear-down does Armke's go? 8 years? I've seen tanks go bad, it's not pretty.

[Neal]

RustyNut,
Can you be more specific about what you mean by "going bad"? What are the indicators that the UGF is going bad? Exactly what can I expect to happen if it does go bad?

Since I have recently added a Fluval 404 and an AC30 HOB, will this prevent a disaster? Having gone 8 years without a problem, I've become pretty confident in this UGF settup, so if there's something I should be watching for, with regard to it going bad on me, I would certainly appreciate your help.

I sure don't like the idea of tearing the tank down to clean out from under the plates. I suppose that means take EVERYTHING out of the tank, including fish, huh? I've thought about this before and had the idea that I could just remove rocks from one half of the tank and push all the gravel over to the other side. That way I could lift one of the plates and clean the bottom. Then, replace that plate, push all the gravel to that side and remove the other plate to clean under it. Probably a bigger pain in the neck than just removing everything.

Since it has been over 8 years without cleaning under the plates, do you think I'm looking at imminent failure of my UGF if I don't do this right away?

[K_Labs]

has any1 actually made this and is currently using it?

[dehn]

Sweet.

Gotta try this.